How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

[meshak]

I agree with you Meshak.

But do you think the fruit of the unsaved is Holy Spirit fruit?
Their love, joy, peace, goodness etc. is it as filthy rags, or is all goodness in the world from the Holy Spirit?

Putting it another way Isa 64:6 says...
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Do you think that God puts any value on human righteousness?

We have no right to judge anyone. It is Jesus who judges.

 

[iouae]

We have no right to judge anyone. It is Jesus who judges.

If you don't want to judge anyone, then tell me what you think of this.

I say all human works are as filthy rags. Even the great things we do for Jesus, and all our commandment keeping.

To me, the ONLY righteousness I claim to have is IMPUTED righteousness.

Jas 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Because the unsaved do not "believe God" they do not have imputed righteousness.

Jas 2:23 is rapidly becoming my favourite scripture. It contains two of my favourite beliefs.
1) We have to be actual friends of God (not potential friends of God)
2) The only righteousness is imputed righteousness.

Imputed righteousness has zero to do with actual works/deeds we do and all to do with belief.

This verse has a third great concept
3) Abraham BELIEVED God...

There is no way to postulate or speculate or guess at whether someone potentially will believe God. That is their free will choice.

Ezekiel 37 speaks of a time the ancient Israelites, Ninevites, Sodomites will be raised, given mortal bodies and a chance to "hear the word of the LORD" and believe and be saved.

Eze 37:4
Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.

Will someone please acknowledge Ezekiel 37 exists

 

[clefty]

Clefty, Jesus did miracles in Capernaum and Chorazin etc. and the folks rejected Him. He did miracles before the scribes and Pharisees and they rejected Him. There is ZERO way you can tell me that folks will automatically accept Jesus.

slow down there...I was talking about chinamen not chorazinites...I was describing how what Paul wrote plays out...the china man lives to the best of revealed truth and dies...judged accordingly he is resurrected and there is the One his heart yearned after...the Father drawing him to Him the goal of everyone...even the OT

Nobody will get one drop of immortality till they have proven they want Jesus personally, as in our making that decision and getting converted.

right nobody EVER will be immortal but dependent on access to the tree of life...and again having been judged by what they knew was right they of course are resurrected and NATURALLY accept Him 100% when they see Him...and thus given access to the tree of LIFE

God is not creating immortal, spirit Frankensteins. He already did that with the demons. But nothing is immortal or indestructible to God. Even demons will die.

yes NO ONE was EVER created IMMORTAL always dependent on the tree of life...that we were born at all and saved from the annihilation of nothingness into life of flesh is extended by mercy and grace through birth of flesh and blood...so that now we can choose to be saved from that annihilation into nothingness again...saved from the forever hell of seperation of God by accepting 100% Him whenever we see Him at the resurrection...the good to accept the evil to reject

As for demons those too He will take back His spirit from them having given it to them on loan and obviously misused by them...

 

[meshak]

If you don't want to judge anyone, then tell me what you think of this.

I say all human works are as filthy rags.

I don't think merciful and peaceful deeds are filthy rags.

Jesus says we will be judged by what we have done.

Jesus' main teaching is about love and love is action.

 

[clefty]

We have no right to judge anyone. It is Jesus who judges.

We are to judge the world and angels...and each other’s fruits...but of course as we will be judged...

 

[meshak]

We are to judge the world and angels...and each other’s fruits...but of course as we will be judged...

I disagree with you.

Jesus is the judge, not anyone else.

We have to wait until Jesus judges who will be with God or not.

 

[clefty]

I disagree with you.

Jesus is the judge, not anyone else.

We have to wait until Jesus judges who will be with God or not.

Paul actually instructed kicking one out of the church and to give him over to Satan...in hopes of having him be chased back into the church of course...but certainly OUT and AWAY of other congregants NOT to contaminate them...

So not only judge but enforce...explains the rot in most churches now...

 

[clefty]

I'm glad you are this cocky for when you stand before the Lord Jesus Christ with me :up: Matthew 5:5. Not you? :think: I'm terrified, frankly. I don't want to malign my Lord Jesus Christ or who is His. You? :noway: You post with a lot of accusation and angst. We are both going to stand before Him and give account.

following your lead...should go back and quote your posts but not worth it...

Wow, "thus sayeth the Lord's prognosticator!" You are correct though, I need scriptures Matthew 4:4

right but some read it and insert bread also turns to flesh...using scripture

Or just read it? :think:

which translation and punctuated how?

Er, hate to tell you fella, NO (zero, nadda) scriptures here. Sure, I'll abandon your response. Hebrews 8:11 I'm not sure I need you :think:

fine...go then and take your Mafioso screenwriting with you...

Wait. You are seriously accusing me of believing scriptures? Like Balaam's donkey? :noway:

Guilty.

you believe it is Samual because it is written that Samuel says...well Peter writes that the donkey says...and Moses writes that the Serpent says...and I bet you cast the line for fish with coins in their mouth because they are an existing type of fish...rare but one was written about

Yes, but 'spiritually' dead. Read Luke 16 again.

not sure what you are even swinging at here...

Is 26:14They are dead now, they live no more; their spirits do NOT rise...
Psalm 115:17 it is not the dead who praise the LORD those who go down to the place of silence (no requests for water)
Ps 6:5 “In the world of the dead you are not remembered no one can praise you there...”

And not because Abraham prevents worship from his bosom...

Now is He NOT the God of the living? The dead can’t worship Him but dont they need Him His authority to resurrect?

Matthew 4:4 John 5:39 I'm pretty sure you are wrong in your posturing in this thread. You've made this an issue of salvation. I don't believe it is but when you are shooting off your mouth about people being in league with Satan over the matter? Yeah, you've got problems. You and I WILL stand before Him. Matthew 12:36

ascribing immortality to mortals is idolatry...baring false witness is another Law broken...Here are they that keep the Commandments of God and the FAITH OF His Son...

He said Lazarus was dead...not resting on Abraham’s bosom...as if spirits can lean on anything let alone another spirit...

That's your belief. Entirely scriptural? No, I don't believe it is. That leaves us completely disagreeing.

gave you scripture...

Question: Allowable in church between brothers or no? Is this one to separate churches over? PERHAPS you've overstepped your bounds and authority...

we are our brother’s keeper...all else we eventually dust our sandals of...

▼more of your polarizing and 'win at all costs, even if it wickedly and gleefully means hell for the other guys'
Matthew 12:36 Because you've made a salvation issue out of this? Matthew 7:1

your signal is fading I do not copy...please repeat...

You judged my words idle?...hmmmm...ok...we are to judge the world and angels...

Me? Trembling before the Maker I love. You? Loosely throwing out condemnations with wicked glee. We will both stand before Him. -Lon

stick to the discussion please...

 

[Lon]

I don't believe in superstition.

But glad you are giving us a second chance Lon.

You think Hebrews 12:6 is superstition??? :noway: !!

 

[way 2 go]

so just your opinion
I will take scripture over your opinion

and do what with it? Add to it? Remove some of it?

when scripture says it is Samuel believe it is samuel.

she saw a form of an old man covered in a robe...in abraham’s bosom are spirits aged? Was it handed a robe on the way out? That the witch saw anything is a shock indeed...I have coworkers who claim to see ghosts in the building...will they be shocked when the really do...

You gave no scriptural evidence from this verse ,so your opinion is that verse is a lie

1Sa 28:12 When the woman saw Samuel

even the disobedient Israelites knew it was Yah with that golden calf...you really think witches have power over the dead saints...Abraham’s reason not to let Lazarus go and warn was that he argued no one would beleive one risen from the dead...

You gave no scriptural evidence from this verse ,so your opinion is that verse is a lie
1Sa 28:14 ... And Saul knew that it was Samuel,

Samuel also said you will be with me...Imagine that...room for one more in Abraham’s bosom and THIS one...a king which Yah appointed then abandoned...yet somehow allowing this meeting...

You gave no scriptural evidence from this verse ,so your opinion is that verse is a lie
1Sa 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul,

“warn others this extra biblical jewish legend is true”

You gave no scriptural evidence from this verse ,so your opinion is that verse is a lie
1Sa 28:16 And Samuel said,

as if a Yah could participate in a evil seance...He knows a house can not be divided and doing the bidding of a satanist would be exabtly that...

You gave no scriptural evidence from this verse ,so your opinion is that verse is a lie
1Sa 28:20 Then Saul fell at once full length on the ground, filled with fear because of the words of Samuel



1Sa 28:15 And Saul answered,

do you believe it was Saul when it says it is Saul?
if yes or no , how do you know?

 

[Lon]

following your lead...should go back and quote your posts but not worth it...

Ditto

gave you scripture...

And yet, "I" think scripture says you are wrong :think:

stick to the discussion please...

Us standing before Him, I think, is important precursor to discussions :think:

 

[meshak]

Paul actually instructed kicking one out of the church

That was church member.

His followers have no business judgeing the world.

His followers are not of the world.

We are to spread Jesus to the world, not condemn them.

 

[drbrumley]

That was church member.

His followers have no business judgeing the world.

His followers are not of the world.

We are to spread Jesus to the world, not condemn them.

That Apostle Paul was so "WORLDLY" wasn't he? That loser Paul I tell ya.

 

[Lon]

I am not sure you respect scripture at all.

Well, then by all means think you are superior :noway: I generally do, but I know how many times I've been through my bible and I know what my grades are, and I know what my IQ is, so I can't help it. :noway:

But let's give you a second chance.

This is just 'trying' to posture past me and my prowess. Sorry, no. You'll either prove it or you won't. So far in thread?

Page 1,post one, one scripture. Post 2 and 4 No scriptures Post 9 four scriptures. Post 12,14,17,20 No scriptures
Post 21 two scriptures.
Post 25,26 No scriptures
By the way NONE of these about soul-sleep or end of life. NOT ONE. You are just looking up what people tell you and using a few to assert because they say NOTHING of the kind. Nadda.
Post 27 N scripture 32,33 No scriptures
post #36 No scriptures Post #37 Genesis 1:2 (again, deductive reasoning, not explicitly given that man dies without a spirit).
Post 39 Scriptures (no reference) of parables.
Post 41 "Proud over my grasp over the word compared to anybody else"
No 'scripture' you are proud to NOT post, but certainly arrogant about your supposed grasp (that you don't post but supposedly know better than anybody else, that you are so proud of). :think:
Post 44 NO Scriptures, of which, you say you are proud of concerning your 'apparent' grasp that is better than anybody else and you are 'proud of.' :think:
Post 45, 47,50 No scriptures lain:
Post 65 1 scripture John 14:3
Page 67 "Luke 16 is just a parable..."
Post 82 No scripture
Post 83 Two scriptures about Lazarus asleep and dead
Post 90 Hebrews 9:27 Doesn't say 'no spirit.' lain:
BY FAR, those who engaged you had you scripturally outquoted about your 1 to 10 :noway:
Then? About page 20 (17), I entered the thread.
Post #242 2 scriptures
Post #244 Thanking Way2Go for more scriptures
Post #247 5 scriptures
You, Post 248 NO scriptures
Me Post 249 Response to your 'no scriptures' no scriptures for me either, just 'rules for debate'
You Post 250 No scriptures
Me Post 251 3 scriptures
You post 252 No scriptures
You post 259 three scriptures
Me post 260 three scriptures
You 261 one scripture
You 262 one scripture same passage as above
You 263 one scripture in response to mine
You 265 one scripture Ecclesiastes

It took 'me' before you posted a scripture. W2G and GD outquoted you more than 10 to one.

 

[way 2 go]

JUST A RECAP

Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This verse in itself shows that the thief on the cross was not with Jesus in paradise on the day he was crucified.
Three days later, Jesus had not yet been to heaven, so how could the thief be there in heaven/paradise THAT DAY if Jesus had not even been there three days later?

The thief was with God

Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

Metaphor

died spiritually

standing and dead
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened.

Standing, as in waking up and standing.

How would you speak of someone who was dead before, like Lazarus? Lazarus arise.

like he said was dead

but in this case this is the spiritually dead

no Christians here

You need to stop confusing Holy Spirit with discussing man. That is a separate discussion. Holy Spirit is a holy attitude, not a component we have now.

:kookoo:

you do not understand the bible,there is physical death & there is also spiritual death .
Luk 9:60 And Jesus said to him, “Leave the dead to bury their own dead. But as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”

METAPHOR

spiritually dead

Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

METAPHOR

spiritually dead

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God.

LITERAL (they had been dead, now are resurrected to hear sentence passed against them)

spiritually dead




Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
spiritually dead

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
spiritually alive

 

[way 2 go]

Well, then by all means think you are superior :noway: I generally do, but I know how many times I've been through my bible and I know what my grades are, and I know what my IQ is, so I can't help it. :noway:

This is just 'trying' to posture past me and my prowess. Sorry, no. You'll either prove it or you won't. So far in thread?

Page 1,post one, one scripture. Post 2 and 4 No scriptures Post 9 four scriptures. Post 12,14,17,20 No scriptures
Post 21 two scriptures.
Post 25,26 No scriptures
By the way NONE of these about soul-sleep or end of life. NOT ONE. You are just looking up what people tell you and using a few to assert because they say NOTHING of the kind. Nadda.
Post 27 N scripture 32,33 No scriptures
post #36 No scriptures Post #37 Genesis 1:2 (again, deductive reasoning, not explicitly given that man dies without a spirit).
Post 39 Scriptures (no reference) of parables.
Post 41 "Proud over my grasp over the word compared to anybody else"
No 'scripture' you are proud to NOT post, but certainly arrogant about your supposed grasp (that you don't post but supposedly know better than anybody else, that you are so proud of). :think:
Post 44 NO Scriptures, of which, you say you are proud of concerning your 'apparent' grasp that is better than anybody else and you are 'proud of.' :think:
Post 45, 47,50 No scriptures lain:
Post 65 1 scripture John 14:3
Page 67 "Luke 16 is just a parable..."
Post 82 No scripture
Post 83 Two scriptures about Lazarus asleep and dead
Post 90 Hebrews 9:27 Doesn't say 'no spirit.' lain:
BY FAR, those who engaged you had you scripturally outquoted about your 1 to 10 :noway:
Then? About page 20 (17), I entered the thread.
Post #242 2 scriptures
Post #244 Thanking Way2Go for more scriptures
Post #247 5 scriptures
You, Post 248 NO scriptures
Me Post 249 Response to your 'no scriptures' no scriptures for me either, just 'rules for debate'
You Post 250 No scriptures
Me Post 251 3 scriptures
You post 252 No scriptures
You post 259 three scriptures
Me post 260 three scriptures
You 261 one scripture
You 262 one scripture same passage as above
You 263 one scripture in response to mine
You 265 one scripture Ecclesiastes

It took 'me' before you posted a scripture. W2G and GD outquoted you more than 10 to one.

NICE RECAP :e4e:

 

[iouae]

Well, then by all means think you are superior :noway: I generally do, but I know how many times I've been through my bible and I know what my grades are, and I know what my IQ is, so I can't help it. :noway:

This is just 'trying' to posture past me and my prowess. Sorry, no. You'll either prove it or you won't. So far in thread?

Page 1,post one, one scripture. Post 2 and 4 No scriptures Post 9 four scriptures. Post 12,14,17,20 No scriptures
Post 21 two scriptures.
Post 25,26 No scriptures
By the way NONE of these about soul-sleep or end of life. NOT ONE. You are just looking up what people tell you and using a few to assert because they say NOTHING of the kind. Nadda.
Post 27 N scripture 32,33 No scriptures
post #36 No scriptures Post #37 Genesis 1:2 (again, deductive reasoning, not explicitly given that man dies without a spirit).
Post 39 Scriptures (no reference) of parables.
Post 41 "Proud over my grasp over the word compared to anybody else"
No 'scripture' you are proud to NOT post, but certainly arrogant about your supposed grasp (that you don't post but supposedly know better than anybody else, that you are so proud of). :think:
Post 44 NO Scriptures, of which, you say you are proud of concerning your 'apparent' grasp that is better than anybody else and you are 'proud of.' :think:
Post 45, 47,50 No scriptures lain:
Post 65 1 scripture John 14:3
Page 67 "Luke 16 is just a parable..."
Post 82 No scripture
Post 83 Two scriptures about Lazarus asleep and dead
Post 90 Hebrews 9:27 Doesn't say 'no spirit.' lain:
BY FAR, those who engaged you had you scripturally outquoted about your 1 to 10 :noway:
Then? About page 20 (17), I entered the thread.
Post #242 2 scriptures
Post #244 Thanking Way2Go for more scriptures
Post #247 5 scriptures
You, Post 248 NO scriptures
Me Post 249 Response to your 'no scriptures' no scriptures for me either, just 'rules for debate'
You Post 250 No scriptures
Me Post 251 3 scriptures
You post 252 No scriptures
You post 259 three scriptures
Me post 260 three scriptures
You 261 one scripture
You 262 one scripture same passage as above
You 263 one scripture in response to mine
You 265 one scripture Ecclesiastes

It took 'me' before you posted a scripture. W2G and GD outquoted you more than 10 to one.

You went to a whole lot of wasted effort here. All I asked was for you to explain the two types of mankind, good and bad, that you read into Ecc 3:18

I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ecc 3:21
Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

But, I suppose if you can't it would be like me doing the following keeping on asking you to explain a simple scripture.

Your "superpower" seems to be in the judgement department - judging others.

The scripture above shows man is JUST LIKE a beast. Unless beasts have an immortal component which I don't know about, then we don't either.

You said you have a good nose for bad doctrine and consider yourself handy around the Bible. Well show us, instead of pontificating.

 

[iouae]

You think Hebrews 12:6 is superstition??? :noway: !!

No, I think you saying that lightning frying my Wifi is God trying to tell me something - THAT is superstition.

As you might see, we have a new Wifi, and are back up and running.

And my city is the first major city due to run out of water soon, so the rain which came with the lightning was a gift from God.

All acts of God have been wonderful in my life, so I see Him not as a harsh Lord, but as a kind, loving, blessing Father whom I have always found to have my back.

 

[iouae]

I don't think merciful and peaceful deeds are filthy rags.

Jesus says we will be judged by what we have done.

Jesus' main teaching is about love and love is action.

Please explain Isa 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Which righteousness do you think Isaiah is referring to as filthy rags?

When Isaiah includes himself by saying "we are all as an unclean thing" do you think the great Isaiah is just being modest?

1Co 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor,... it profiteth me nothing.

Consider this person giving all his goods to feed the poor, yet profiting nothing...

What is wrong with his righteousness, apart from the obvious fact that he did not have love?

 

[iouae]

slow down there...I was talking about chinamen not chorazinites...I was describing how what Paul wrote plays out...the china man lives to the best of revealed truth and dies...judged accordingly he is resurrected and there is the One his heart yearned after...the Father drawing him to Him the goal of everyone...even the OT

When Is our Chinaman resurrected?

Let's suppose it is after the Millennium (Rev 20:5).

What if our Chinaman sees Jesus, and does not like what he sees, just like many folks in Jesus day rejected Jesus, and as many folks growing up in our Christian culture reject Jesus today.

So here we have Jesus reigning on earth, the Chinaman has been resurrected with access to the Tree of Life, but our Chinaman rejects Christ. What then?

If you say our Chinaman WILL love Jesus, I can already tell you I don't believe every Chinaman will automatically love Jesus.