How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

[Tambora]

Tambora, did the medium speak for Samuel, or did a ghostly voice speak without the medium saying a word?

What does scripture say ....

1 Samuel 28:15-20 KJV
(15) And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
(16) Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
(17) And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
(18) Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
(19) Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
(20) Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.



Replacing Samuel with something else would be rewriting scripture.

 

[iouae]

What does scripture say ....

1 Samuel 28:15-20 KJV
(15) And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
(16) Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
(17) And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
(18) Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
(19) Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
(20) Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.



Replacing Samuel with something else would be rewriting scripture.

You know Saul never saw anything don't you?

So I repeat my question, did the medium speak for Saul, or did a ghostly voice speak without the medium's mouth moving?

And apart from this demonic experience, do you have any other concrete example of the dead being able to do anything apart from sleep? Thanks.

 

[Lon]

You went to a whole lot of wasted effort here. All I asked was for you to explain the two types of mankind, good and bad, that you read into Ecc 3:18

No. I didn't. I proved something evident to everybody debating you. They? Know and use scriptures.

I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ecc 3:21
Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Sad or hilarious? I posted a PDF about the whole point of Ecclesiastes. Did you read it? Nope. Why? Because you think (seriously) that you have a better grasp of scripture than anybody else, even though you don't post them and don't 'seem' to know them. Like here... lain:

But, I suppose if you can't it would be like me doing the following keeping on asking you to explain a simple scripture.

Aw. How very politely condescending of you... :noway: You are such a gentle and gracious sort :mmph:

Your "superpower" seems to be in the judgement department - judging others.

DUDE! THAT guy is YOU! I JUST told you this isn't a salvific issue. You and Clefty are the ones condemning everybody to hell over it :doh:

It is ridiculous as is this accusation. THAT MAN IS YOU!

The scripture above shows man is JUST LIKE a beast. Unless beasts have an immortal component which I don't know about, then we don't either.

You said you have a good nose for bad doctrine and consider yourself handy around the Bible. Well show us, instead of pontificating.

Without God, man is. THAT is the whole point of Ecclesiastes. Solomon doesn't say 'no longer exists' here. Find that verse. You know it better than me apparently, find that verse? Well, if you 'know' it better than me, simply quote it from memory.

You are asking me to prove a negative. Ecclesiastes doesn't say man poofs out of existence anywhere. That ISN'T the comparison. So, yeah, I can't prove what isn't in the scripture, just what IS in the scripture lain:

 

[Lon]

No, I think you saying that lightning frying my Wifi is God trying to tell me something - THAT is superstition.

Right, so, according to you, God DOESN'T discipline those He loves :chuckle: Your theology is whack dude.

Let me ask you, without a VERY clear spanking, how WOULD you know God is disciplining you? :dizzy:

THINK! (And rethink your scriptural prowess, I'm finding you lacking, personally)

 

[Lon]

lol...

choose ye this day...





Your next post in this thread adds real leverage to this veiled threat...your having superiority and all with scriptures having gone through it multiple times...and then of course your high grades...oh and high IQ

And certainly your willingness to prove your prowess...oh my


Your fruits are quite beyond ripe...

Nice. Proud of yourself? Did "I" condemn you to hell over 'my' supposed prowess? :nono:

Plank. Eye. Remove it. Stop playing the 'holier than though' card, especially in a thread topic like this where it is 'okay' to not agree. This isn't a core doctrine. Stop being an amateur.

 

[clefty]

Good.
It's best to tell it as scripture tells it and not rewrite the story to your liking.

Yup...It is written the serpent talked but it was merely being used...Peter said the donkey spoke with a human voice but it was being used...the people knew the golden calf was Yah...Aaron even authorized it...but it wasn’t...the bronze serpent was known to heal...but it became an idol...the Spirit was gone

The folk tale existed where Lazarus landed on Abraham’s bosom...but when His freind “slept” He clarified “he is dead” and did NOT say “he landed on Abraham’s lap”

 

[clefty]

Nice. Proud of yourself?

HalleluYah

Did "I" condemn you to hell over 'my' supposed prowess? :nono:

worse as there is no hell to condemn anyone to you merely subjecagated me to another pontification of your prowess...

Plank. Eye. Remove it. Stop playing the 'holier than though' card, especially in a thread topic like this where it is 'okay' to not agree. This isn't a core doctrine. Stop being an amateur.

Every thread is ok not to agree not just the ones you prowess...

Hell is actually quite an important doctrine...much of current christian thinking and belief is stained with it...

Breaking the top two and more of His top ten...1)He is God the ONLY immortal authority not traditions and folktales of man living forever tormented...2) dont make imaginations as they are false and dont serve them
3) dont bare false witness...

Amateur? Lest ye become like little children...naive trust and blind faith in Him His > man’s traditions...

 

[Tambora]

You know Saul never saw anything don't you?

Is that the way scripture tells the story?

So I repeat my question, did the medium speak for Saul, or did a ghostly voice speak without the medium's mouth moving?

How does scripture tell the story?

And apart from this demonic experience, do you have any other concrete example of the dead being able to do anything apart from sleep? Thanks.

How many times does it have to happen to make it true?

 

[iouae]

Without God, man is. THAT is the whole point of Ecclesiastes. Solomon doesn't say 'no longer exists' here. Find that verse. You know it better than me apparently, find that verse? Well, if you 'know' it better than me, simply quote it from memory.

Ecc 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Psa 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecc 9:10
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.


The grave sounds pretty dead to me.

 

[iouae]

Is that the way scripture tells the story?

How does scripture tell the story?

How many times does it have to happen to make it true?

I see you like to ask questions rather than answer them

Sa 28:11
Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
1Sa 28:12
And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
1Sa 28:13
And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

So its a fact that Saul saw nothing.

And you have not answered whether "Samuel" spoke through the woman or not.

That is usually what mediums do.

And what role do you think a "familiar spirit" plays?

It is what speaks through the medium. And familiar spirits are just demons.

Do you see how grumpy "Samuel" sounds? It's probably the tenth time he was disturbed that day on a callout by mediums, and Samuel was expecting to rest in the grave, and here he can be summoned at will. Not much of an hereafter if you ask me. He really did sound a bit peeved. And he was called up from the ground, not down from heaven as one would expect. But a demon might be expected to come up from the ground.

And the medium sees "gods" - just another name for demon spirits.

So here we have one demon oppressed person (Saul) going to a demon possessed person (medium).

And the spirit/"Samuel" tells Saul...
1Sa 28:19
Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me:

Think about it. That is obviously a lie. Samuel was a good person, and Saul was wicked, so they would NEVER end up together in the afterlife. So Houston, we have a problem.

Do you have any experience of demons? Serious question. Do you know why one is told to avoid mediums? Because their object is to deceive. And if you bought this story, then you are a good example of why not to go to mediums expecting truth.

The rest of us who take the medium warning seriously, don't dabble in the paranormal. We approach a situation like the medium/witch story pre-primed to beware.

So apart from this, what other evidence do you have of life after death? Near death experiences?

 

[iouae]

Right, so, according to you, God DOESN'T discipline those He loves :chuckle: Your theology is whack dude.

Let me ask you, without a VERY clear spanking, how WOULD you know God is disciplining you? :dizzy:

THINK! (And rethink your scriptural prowess, I'm finding you lacking, personally)

I know a lot of "religious" folks like you who are always expecting that whack on the head from an abusive Father. Generally I have found, they expect the Father to whack others.

But it just indicates such an out of whack attitude towards God - completely different from my expectation of God. And I find God is to me what I expect Him to be, and may He be to you how you describe Him to be - just dying to whack someone.

 

[iouae]

Sad or hilarious? I posted a PDF about the whole point of Ecclesiastes. Did you read it? Nope. Why?

You really have a big head Lon - as your avatar indicates.

You wrote a PDF, you don't post it to me, yet, you condemn me for not hunting out some obscure paper you have written?

And why do I want to read your whole paper on Ecclesiastes when all I want is a straight answer on those three verses in Ecclesiastes, which you could have simply answered.

You really are a piece of work

 

[Tambora]

Yup...It is written the serpent talked but it was merely being used

That's now how scripture tells the story.
Doesn't say anything about some serpent being used by an evil spirit.

Peter said the donkey spoke with a human voice but it was being used

Peter relates what scripture says.
It says nothing about an evil spirit taking over the donkey, but that the donkey spoke.


Numbers 22:28-30 KJV
(28) And the LORD opened the mouth of the ***, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
(29) And Balaam said unto the ***, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
(30) And the *** said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ***, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.



Scripture tells the story as it is meant to be told.

 

[iouae]

I've a nose for it too. For the most part, some heresies are worse than others. This one? I've seen Catholics who believe we 'soul-sleep.' Lazarus, but example was 'asleep.'

My view on this is among the minority, so I know what 'cult' looks like.

So much of your post space is spent judging others, that you have never explained how your view of life after death "is among the minority".

And you say you fear judgment day - which maybe you should, since you so like to judge others.

So why not just spit out what you believe, in plain English, and tell us why you think you are among a minority?

I know it will make a change from pontificating and blowing off hot air, but focus and really try to teach us your view - with scriptures too, would be nice

 

[iouae]

The New Testament likens death to sleep.


Act 7:60
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
1Co 15:6
After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:18
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Th 4:13
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
2Pe 3:4
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

This alone should be enough to put the matter of what happens to us after death, to bed. We are asleep.

Why can folks not just believe what they read in the Bible.

And if Samuel is "asleep" he is not speaking to anyone.

And If Samuel is "asleep" and if Ecc and Psalms are correct, Samuel knows nothing, and cannot tell Saul anything.

is Ecc 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Psa 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

If the dead have gone down into silence, then the "thing" speaking through the medium was not the dead Samuel.

 

[Lon]

HalleluYah

worse as there is no hell to condemn anyone to you merely subjecagated me to another pontification of your prowess...



Every thread is ok not to agree not just the ones you prowess...

Hell is actually quite an important doctrine...much of current christian thinking and belief is stained with it...

Er, THIS thread is about life after death, not hell. lain:

Breaking the top two and more of His top ten...1)He is God the ONLY immortal authority not traditions and folktales of man living forever tormented...2) dont make imaginations as they are false and dont serve them
3) dont bare false witness...

I for one, could give a care less what you particularly think is breaking a top ten, by implication or accusation. If I break one before God, it will be my God's business, nunya (none-of-yours).

So do I have another god? Nope,none-ya. Do I worship an image? Nope, nunya. Bearing false witness? Nope. Does that include "false-accusation?" It 'seems' your accusatory isn't accurate to me :think:

You and I will stand before God. Idle words are those spoken without careful contemplation. To me? It doesn't 'seem' you've been careful.

Amateur? Lest ye become like little children...naive trust and blind faith in Him His > man’s traditions...

Why are you even on TOL, given this? It is trolling and inflammatory, lame accusation. If you 'could' substantiate any of it, that'd be something. Just saying it/asserting it? No good.

 

[Lon]

Ecc 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

On earth? Or period? What does Verse 6 say?
Your other 3 posts aren't scripture, just posturing so, if it is all the same to you, I'll ignore them.

 

[way 2 go]

Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

 

[way 2 go]

Peter wrote the donkey spoke...but did it really?

You gave no scriptural evidence from this verse ,so your opinion is that verse is a lie


Num 22:28 Then the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?”
Num 22:29 And Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have made a fool of me. I wish I had a sword in my hand, for then I would kill you.”
Num 22:30 And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.”

Moses wrote the serpent spoke...but did it really?

:think:
Gen 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”
Eze 28:13
Eze 28:14
Eze 28:15

Now some insist Samuel was brought up by the witch despite the Jewish folk tale having Abraham teach that no one believes one risen from the dead...the irony

Jesus is risen from the dead so Jesus was not teaching "no one believes one risen from the dead"

Luk 16:31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

moreover what the prophet Samuel said came true
1Sa 28:19 Moreover, the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines.”

All the above written in scripture...but it was not so

You gave no scriptural evidence ,so it is your opinion is that the bible has lots of lies

Saul knew it was Samuel as written but the desperate rejected of Him believe anything...

I would not say you are rejected of him but you are not interested in truth

 

[way 2 go]

Way to go - do you believe some folks will burn forever in hell?

And if so, do you think this portrays God in a good light?

you would love this thread
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?