Has the Law been done away with?

[ThreeAngels]

Bs"d



No, there is no difference. What you have to keep in mind is that there is no "law of Moses", what there is are many laws of God, given through Moses. Therefore it is called "law of Moses", but it is the law of God.

Here are some examples: "Now Y-H-W-H spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying, ‘These are the animals which you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth: 3 Among the animals, whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves and chewing the cud—that you may eat. 4 Nevertheless these you shall not eat among those that chew the cud or those that have cloven hooves: the camel, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 5 the rock hyrax, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 6 the hare, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 7 and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. 8 Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. They are unclean to you."
Lev 11

So you see that the law about not eating pork is given by God, but given to the Israelites by Moses and Aaron, therefore it is called the law of Moses, but it is the law of God.

Another one:

"Then Y-H-W-H spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying:
‘When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall be unclean. 3 On the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised."
Lev 12

There are hundreds more examples like this in the Torah, the five books of Moses.

The 10 commandments were given straight by God to the Israelites. Because the Israelites were very afraid, the rest came through Moses.

In the NT no difference is made between the 10 commandments and the law of Moses.

When the Christian messiah speaks about "the law" he means the five books of Moses, containing all 613 commandments.

The Jewish division of the Tanach, the Hebrew Bible, is in three parts: The Torah, (T) the prophets, (in Hebrew: nevi'iem, the N) and the writings, (in Hebrew Chetuviem, the Ch, making for the acronym "Tanach")

The Torah are the five books of Moses. The prophets are the prophetic books, the big and small prophets, and the writings are books like Ruth, Esther, Proverbs, etc, and that section begins with the Psalms.

And we see that in the NT that exact same division is made, when it is said: "Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
Luke 24:44

So here "the law of Moses" means the first five books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, which include the 10 commandments.

When the question is asked, "What is the first commandment?", not a commandment from the 10 commandments is given, but from the law of Moses:

"Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”
29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
Mark 12

"Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." is Deut 6:4, and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" is Lev 19:18, both from the law of Moses, not from the 10 commandments.

So no difference is made.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

Sure there is a difference. The law of God was written by the finger of Jesus Himself and kept inside the ark of the covenant while the law of Moses was dictated to Moses by Jesus and kept on the side of the ark.

 

[ThreeAngels]

How come the 10 commandments were given only to the nation of Israel under the old covenant and not to the Gentiles or other nations of the world?

The ten commandments were given to all of mankind at his creation hence it is that Cain could sin by killing ie breaking law number 6. Cain has been warned "sin lieth at the door" in Genesis 4:7. Sin is defined as "the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4.

 

[TweetyBird]

Elia is probably part of Messianic Judaism, probably Hebrew Roots Movement. No Jewish person from birth on and having been taught Rabbinical Judaism would post like he/she does. Jews could care less about accusing Christians of "paganism". And no way are they going to try and convince Christians to keep the Law of Moses.

 

[ThreeAngels]

The Law of Moses for Israel hasn't changed but its jurisdiction has.

California law doesn't change just because we go to New York, but now we abide by New York law.

The law of God has binding claims on all mankind now as it did when it was committed to Adam. The law of types and figures ended when the Antitype whom it foreshadowed was nailed to the cross, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" Col 2:14

 

[TweetyBird]

The ten commandments were given to all of mankind at his creation hence it is that Cain could sin by killing ie breaking law number 6. Cain has been warned "sin lieth at the door" in Genesis 4:7. Sin is defined as "the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4.

The 10 commandments were given to the Nation of Israel at Mt Sinai. They were part of the covenant that God established between Him and the Gentiles. It was unknown before then. 1 John 3:4 is not referring to the Mosaic Law Covenant, but the Law of Christ. The entire context of 1 John is to love one another, just as Jesus taught. Jesus also told us that the whole Law of God hangs on Love. This is the commandment of Christ. The whole law of God is not the Mosaic Law Covenant.

Deut 5
1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


1 John 3
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

 

[ThreeAngels]

The 10 commandments were given to the Nation of Israel at Mt Sinai. They were part of the covenant that God established between Him and the Gentiles. It was unknown before then. 1 John 3:4 is not referring to the Mosaic Law Covenant, but the Law of Christ. The entire context of 1 John is to love one another, just as Jesus taught. Jesus also told us that the whole Law of God hangs on Love. This is the commandment of Christ. The whole law of God is not the Mosaic Law Covenant.

Deut 5
1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


1 John 3
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

If the law was given to Israel My Sinai then why how is it that before the Israelites came to Sinai they understood the Sabbath to be obligatory upon them? In being obliged to gather every Friday a double portion of manna in preparation for the Sabbath, when none would fall, the sacred nature of the day of rest was continually impressed upon them. And when some of the people went out on the Sabbath to gather manna, the Lord asked, “How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?”
The covenant made with Israel in Mt Horeb was the old covenant sealed with blood of bullocks. The new covenant, though made before with Adam, was sealed by the blood of Christ. The underlying principle of the ten commandments is supreme love for God and love for one's neighbor as oneself.

 

[Elia]

Neither the letter of the Law kills nor does the spirit give life. What kills is to become aware of the Law and still refuse to obey. What gives life is to obey the Law, period.

Bs"d

AMEN!

"You shall observe My judgments and keep My ordinances, to walk in them: I am Y-H-W-H your God. 5 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, which if a man does, he shall live by them: I am Y-H-W-H."
Lev 18:5

 

[Jacob]

Bs"d

God's commandment of male-circumcision saves MANY MILLIONS of lives.

For the finer details look here: https://sites.google.com/site/circlifesaver/



"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9

Circumcision is a command of God. I am not following the things in your link.

 

[Jacob]

Bs"d

Well, it sure looks like it...


"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9

It is not the case.

 

[Elia]

Are you defending the right to stone all adulterers? Here's a big problem - are you going to stone all those with lust in their hearts - because Jesus said that was the same thing as adultery ...

Bs"d

He might have said that, but everybody with two working brain cells knows that it is not the same, so we are not going to stone people with lust in their heart.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14

 

[Jacob]

Bs"d

God never said that the christ would suffer.

"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."
Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

I don't know why you say this.

Have you read Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53? Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah. I believe this is Yeshua, Jesus.

 

[Jacob]

Bs"d

Of course it is good to do the law of God. You got to have a hole in your head to think that it is good to throw the law overboard and replace it with paganism.



Some NT writers seem to differ:

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
James 2

It is not necessarily a difference. Are you familiar with justification and salvation by faith?

 

[Elia]

You should obey God's commands. God will help you if you need help.

Bs"d

"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."
Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

 

[Ben Masada]

Bs"d

AMEN!

"You shall observe My judgments and keep My ordinances, to walk in them: I am Y-H-W-H your God. 5 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, which if a man does, he shall live by them: I am Y-H-W-H."
Lev 18:5

Thanks Elia for bringing down into simpler words what I meant. I hope it will help our Christian friends.

 

[Ben Masada]

Elia is probably part of Messianic Judaism, probably Hebrew Roots Movement. No Jewish person from birth on and having been taught Rabbinical Judaism would post like he/she does. Jews could care less about accusing Christians of "paganism". And no way are they going to try and convince Christians to keep the Law of Moses.

You are right and so was Jesus when he warned us all to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luck 16:29-31) And Jesus added in the same parable that, even if the dead could rise they would not believe.

 

[Elia]

You do not have the LAW written on your heart. There is no "sacrifice for (personal) sin" as the Law of Moses cannot be practiced, as the Temple does not exist. You are "dead in your sins".

Bs"d

I don't think so. See here: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/sacrifices

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. - Jeremiah 31:33

Let's not rip a verse out of context, but let's look at the whole text:

"“Behold, the days are coming, says Y-H-W-H, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says Y-H-W-H. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Y-H-W-H: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know Y-H-W-H,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Y-H-W-H. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

This of course speaks about the end of days. Because now we are not in the time that everybody knows Y-H-W-H, and nobody has to teach his neighbour about God.

So the days of the new covenant have not arrived yet. Just like the messiah hasn't come yet.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14

 

[Ben Masada]

Has the Law Been Done Away With?

Heaven and earth in the Tanach is a reference to the universe. Since we are still around as part of the universe, this is evidence that heaven and earth have not passed away yet. Therefore, the Law has not been done away with.

 

[Elia]

Sure there is a difference. The law of God was written by the finger of Jesus Himself and kept inside the ark of the covenant while the law of Moses was dictated to Moses by Jesus and kept on the side of the ark.

Bs"d

The finger of JC?? From where do you get these weird ideas??

The Ten Commandments are written by the finger of the one and only true God Y-H-W-H:

"Then Y-H-W-H delivered to me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God, and on them were all the words which Y-H-W-H had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly. 11 And it came to pass, at the end of forty days and forty nights, that Y-H-W-H gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant."
Deut 9

No JC to be seen. Just like in the rest of the Tanach.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

The ten commandments were given to all of mankind at his creation hence it is that Cain could sin by killing ie breaking law number 6. Cain has been warned "sin lieth at the door" in Genesis 4:7. Sin is defined as "the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4.

Bs"d

Not the 10 commandments are for all mankind, but the seven Noachidic commandments, given to Adam, and again incorporated in the covenant God made with Noach.

"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."
Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

 

[Elia]

It is not the case.

Bs"d

Of course it is the case. JC says: “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"
Matthew 5

Comes Paul and the throws the whole law overboard.

How can you say that they don't contradict each other??


"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9