Has All Been Fulfilled? Have Heaven and Earth Passed?

[TweetyBird]

Nano second?...lol...your argument is there is no division in time...

There is no division of time in Christ. He is the end and the beginning, forever without end.

...oh sure and they worshipped golden calves too...your conflation of Jesus (I should use Joshua from now as according to you they are the same name) ok so your conflation of Him with a period of time is exactly idolatry...he said I will give you rest...not "I will give you a sabbath rest" certainly NOT "I am the Sabbath day"

Jesus and Joshua are the same name. Joshua is the long form, Yeshua is the shortened form - which I have already posted. There are also how many 10 of 1000s of men named "Jesus" [Spanish - Hey-soos]. They are not all Jesus Christ, are they? How many 10s of 1000s of men have been named Joshua? They are not all Jesus Christ, are they?

If we are at Rest in Christ, then He is all the rest we need. He did not say come to me on the Sabbath and I will give you rest.

Matthew 11:28-30
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.



Heb 4
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

And because we have rest...literal rest in our calendar and spiritual rest in Him

The Sabbath is no longer a literal day. Exactly which day are you going to observe as being "God's Day of Rest" as the 7th day? If you are in Israel, it started on Friday. If you are in America, it started on Saturday. If you are in Australia, it's today [Sunday].

I just said that...no one ever taught to "love as I loved you" but as John said it was NOT a new law as it was from the beginning...of creation...

John said it was from the beginning, when Jesus came to earth. He repeats some of what he wrote in John 1.

1 John 1
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; ) 3 that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

John 1
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



Jesus said it was a new commandment. New law, new commandment. "new" means fresh, brand new.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1 John 2
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

 

[TweetyBird]

now you are making it about literal Israel...

You are "making it about" literal Israel.

We are talking about the church in the wilderness as it was affectionally called by Stephen before joos killed him wishing to keep it all for themselves...literally

They didn't kill Stephan because the Jews wanted the "church" for themselves. :hammer:

The "church in the wilderness" was allegorical for all those who believed the Promise, the faithful saints of old - Abraham's Seed > Jesus Christ.

Now no longer married He can seek another bride to join Him...His way...

That bride is not Israel, it's one new man and it's called the "body of Christ, His church".

 

[TweetyBird]

They were added by men, not the Father.

The commandments that God gave to Israel for keeping the Sabbath were stringent, uncompromising, a burden and a yoke put upon them. It was not rest - it was forced submission or they were cursed. They also had to offer sacrifices, be confined to home, light no fire [winter got cold], etc. How you think that was not a burden? Hebrews 3 states that they NEVER entered God's rest because of unbelief.

 

[TweetyBird]

MOST? uh oh you are slipping...circumcision is exactly not what was required or not eating meat which died naturally...

It's not hard to agree to a promise land and a 1/7 day of rest...

Most of the Law. Some of the commandments were not for outsiders. Circumcision was required. I just quoted Joshua. Maybe he got it wrong?

dead to ourselves made alive to Him to in His house eager to do His will...His way...His people known as spiritual Israel...that church in the wilderness...

Where is "spiritual Israel" mentioned in the text?

 

[TweetyBird]

So let's wrap this up yes? There you have it...Sabbath keeping continued by believers as He instructed even after He returned to heaven...up to the temple destruction and beyond

The disciples were not bringing offerings to the Temple in order to keep the Sabbath. They went to the Temple to preach the Gospel 7 days a week. Just like Jesus preached and did His Father's work 7 days a week.

Lol...

Sabbath was already being kept outside of that city...

ummmm - no. Without the Temple, no Sabbath. Jesus is the Temple, indicating He is the Sabbath Rest.

The Sabbath is not mentioned again after Acts, but once, indicating that it was no longer important. If it was, it would have been preached repeatedly like the other commandments of the Law of Christ.

 

[TweetyBird]

LOL of course you are...equating Him with it...replacing it with Him...for dozens of posts now...

The word "Sabbath" mean rest, it does not mean the "7th day" or "a day".

Sabbath:

shâbath
shaw-bath'
A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

Prophecy of Jesus Christ:

1 Chronicles 23:25
For David said, The Lord God of Israel hath given rest unto his people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem for ever:

One rests in the Lord:

Psalm 37:7
Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

Psalm 132:8
Arise, O Lord, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.

Isaiah 30:15
For thus saith the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.

Where is the place of God's rest? In His Son, He is the Temple not built with hands.

Isaiah 66:1
Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Acts 7
47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things? 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Whatever...He never said "I replace the Sabbath" or "I am the Sabbath rest"

I believe He did.

Matt 11
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What? Only God did? Well that's enough for me...

that kingdom is lawless?

You are not God, unless of course you helped Him create the world and everything in it?

 

[TweetyBird]

read carefully that another day another place is eternal rest the promised land...therefore there remains for the people of God a sabbath keeping...

Eternal rest is not future, it's now and forever. We are citizens of Heaven and have been translated into His Kingdom aka the Promised Land - Heb 11.

. Certainly not all that has been added to clean and unclean found in Leviticus given to Moses not made up by him...or the elders later

There is no such thing as "kosher" in the Mosaic Law. "Kosher" is a rabbinical term referring to the Talmudic food restrictions. Most of which are not found in the Mosaic Law.

that it's only for da joooos...you know exactly what you have been claiming

I have never stated such a thing.

should I call them snakes and vipers? Sons of the devil?

What?????????

"if you would have read Moses and the projects you would have known of Me"

No NT at that time...your everyday the same is not scriptural nor appealing...

Jesus said that prophets spoke of Him. That was His point. He did not say, the law and prophets are for today. They were the shadow, not the Light. His words are inspired Scripture.

I didn't make up worshipping on first fruits day or first day...

Once again, why do you judge me on something that I never stated?

and after the sabbath they came to the tomb and found it already long empty...

Matt 28
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 and for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Mark 16
2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. 6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

Luke 24
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

All of the writers of the first century all refer to Jesus rising on the first day of the week or as it was called then, the "8th day".

Not rising on Sunday does not necessarily mean it was sabbath morning...it just necessarily means not rising on Sunday morning and thus the premise to celebrate his Sunday resurrection is in error...

There is no evidence that proves Jesus arose on the Sabbath. Not one shred of evidence. Christians began celebrating the resurrection of Christ and worshiping Him the day He arose. The Gospel was preached - first to the woman, then they preached to the disciples. Read the Gospel accounts.

 

[TweetyBird]

Yup...including "do the will of My Father"...why else would He instruct the Sabbath not be broken during the fleeing in times to come?

Jesus never said stated that.

Ignoring that lesson He taught about its spirit not the traditions of the elders/rabbis/Pharisees/stiffnecks

I was referring to the Mosaic Law, not the pharisees.

As if the thou shalt not kill was simplified by "don't get mad" or thou shalt not commit adultery was made easier with "don't ogle the cuties"

The Law was not simplified, it was changed. The old was rendered incomplete. Hatred equals murder, murder is murder.

But with the Spirit it is possible to follow Him...do as He did...to love just as He Loved.

The Spirit was not sent for us to keep the Mosaic Law, but bear the fruit of the Spirit and walk in love.

No Sunday Ham here thank you.

:kookoo:

 

[jamie]

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jesus' is light and easy compared to the Pharisees. Jesus said they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Go by Jesus' teachings about the Sabbath, not the Pharisees' teachings.

If the Sabbath is a burden you're not doing it right.

 

[jamie]

Where is "spiritual Israel" mentioned in the text?

Paul refers to it.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.​

 

[TweetyBird]

I wasn't talking about the Hebrew names I was commenting on even with English translators using the wrong name Jesus...even this version does not imply what you want it to as even in this version Jesus did not bring rest and thus there remains for the people of God a Sabbath keeping...

So neither Jesus nor Joshua gave them rest...

Israel did not have rest granted to them because they were in unbelief. Rest is in Christ. The Sabbath was a shadow of the rest we have in Christ. We are no longer in the shadows, but rest in the Light, who is Christ Jesus.

I am not forcing anything "Thou shalt not kill" was exactly temporal as was "Thou shalt not commit adultery"

Jesus changed that to what is in one's heart as equal to what one does "temporally".

Or don't make images or don't steal...you do see the pattern yes?

Jesus changed that as well. Put your treasure in Heaven, not in earthly things and desires. Do not make friends with the world, man cannot serve two masters, etc. Stealing is not living righteously, etc.

Again these describe the temporal realm we are/were to live in as it was in the garden before the fall...you do believe in Eden as temporal yes?

Eden was only temporal aka temporary. Unless you think God was surprised when Adam and Eve ate the fruit they were commanded not to eat? I don't see that that has to do with being in Christ. We are to view life through the Spirit, not through temporal means. Temporal is only temporary - like Eden. Earth time is only temporary. We are aliens and strangers here - our eyes are on eternity.

It is through the temporal that we are taught the spiritual...kill the innocent lamb foreshadowed another literal event but both had spiritual ramifications...

The temporal cannot teach us of Christ. Only when one has been born again with Spirit and Water are one's eyes opened. The Law of Moses did no good for Israel. They could not see their Savior because the temporal blinded them - they had a veil over they eyes and still do to this day. It was not until after Christ arose that the shadows were exposed in His Light.

The law points out literal sin and spiritual sin as before that sin occurs temporally the spiritual realm is already compromised...

The Law cannot point out "literal sin" anymore. The sin that now separates people from God is unbelief. Even unbelievers can keep the 10 commandments. They are still sinners in God's eyes. Only the Righteousness of God in Christ can change that.

The law however can not fix that compromised spiritual realm...only He, His Spirit voluntarily accepted can...

That is a pretty convoluted view of the work of the Holy Spirit.

Again being in Him does not mean there is no more sin and it still impacts our reality...we have to work by the sweat of our brow...but yes even the land received a sabbath...

Physical labor has nothing to do with salvation or resting in Christ Jesus.

In Him we still need a good nights sleep yes? Well how about a day off after six days labor...

No, I disagree. Our bodies need rest, but that is not what saves us or makes us a child of God. I don't get days off. Millions of people do not. I am blessed by God to have no physical day of rest. I am doing His work 24/7 as He prepared for me to do. Not taking a nap on Sunday ...LOL LOL LOL :darwinsm:

Sabbath never brought salvation merely pointed to the One Who does...it gave temporal rest for us to come into closer fellowship with the Creator of all leading to spiritual rest...the original pattern

If the Sabbath does not bring salvation, then it is no longer important. The day is no longer a day, but a place and that place of rest is in Christ.

 

[jamie]

Tweety, the Father's Sabbath is only for his people, not for unbelievers. This means you needn't be concerned about it.

No one can keep the Father's instructions without a Helper.

 

[TweetyBird]

Paul refers to it.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.​

I see Jesus being referred to as the Spiritual Rock - He is spiritual "food" and "drink". I see no "spiritual Israel" there.

 

[TweetyBird]

Tweety, the Father's Sabbath is only for his people, not for unbelievers. This means you needn't be concerned about it.

No one can keep the Father's instructions without a Helper.

The Sabbath Day [7th day] was given to unbelievers .... Israel never experienced that rest because of unbelief.

"The Helper" cannot help anyone keep the 7th Day Sabbath Rest.

 

[TweetyBird]

Jesus' is light and easy compared to the Pharisees. Jesus said they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Go by Jesus' teachings about the Sabbath, not the Pharisees' teachings.

Jesus taught that the Sabbath Rest is in Him.

If the Sabbath is a burden you're not doing it right.

The only guidelines/commandments/laws for keeping a 7th day Sabbath Rest are found in the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law was a burden. No one has ever kept that Law.

 

[jamie]

No one has ever kept that Law.

Not even Jesus?

 

[TweetyBird]

Not even Jesus?

He had already been "qualified" before He was even born to be the sacrificial Lamb. What I read is that He constantly made changes to the Law of Moses during His ministry. According the Law of Moses, that was a big no-no.

 

[jamie]

He had already been "qualified" before He was even born to be the sacrificial Lamb. What I read is that He constantly made changes to the Law of Moses during His ministry. According the Law of Moses, that was a big no-no.

So are you saying Christ violated his law that he gave to Moses?

 

[TweetyBird]

So are you saying Christ violated his law that he gave to Moses?

If Jesus changed the Law and taught something different, then how can you say He kept the Law of Moses?

 

[clefty]

He had already been "qualified" before He was even born to be the sacrificial Lamb. What I read is that He constantly made changes to the Law of Moses during His ministry. According the Law of Moses, that was a big no-no.

That explains everything...What you read and what is written are not the same thing...

"Come unto Me and I will give you rest" is NOT "come unto Me I am the Sabbath day"