ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal
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Sonnet
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Sonnet
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Right.
You are only being argumentative on some private campaign using verses wrongly to suit your purpose.
LA
wouldn't it be more correct to say that only believers listen to what God says?
Well that shows what a believer is.
There are those who hear superficially but do not do as He says.
God is outside of their hearts.
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
It's in the Bible.
Which of these statements is true?
1. Christ died for some of the sins of all men.
2. Christ died for all the sins of some men.
3. Christ died for all the sins of all men.
No one says that the first is true, for then all would be lost because of the sins that Christ did not die for. The only way to be saved from sin is for Christ to cover it with his blood.
The third statement is what the Arminians would say. Christ died for all the sins of all men. But then why are not all saved? They answer, Because some do not believe. But is this unbelief not one of the sins for which Christ died? If they say yes, then why is it not covered by the blood of Jesus and all unbelievers saved? If they say no (unbelief is not a sin that Christ has died for) then they must say that men can be saved without having all their sins atoned for by Jesus, or they must join us in affirming statement number two: Christ died for all the sins of some men. That is, he died for the unbelief of the elect so that God's punitive wrath is appeased toward them and his grace is free to draw them irresistibly out of darkness into his marvelous light. -John piper
Sonnet
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How? All men have access to salvation.
Cross Reference
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All men or merely those who believe for it in the prescribed manner, that is?
Sonnet
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(It was John Owen by thee way)
If Christ died in the way you suppose then the elect would need do nothing since all the sins including unbelief would have been atoned for. Owen's assumption - of the definition of the atonement - affirms his outcome - a fake contradiction of the Arminian position.
Sonnet
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All are provided for. Only those that exercise faith will be saved.
Transgenders also preach transBible. They twist words around and deceive others
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After reading all that aren't you glad that we are not saved by understanding and an intellectual adherence to a systematic framework that pieces the Bible together into a boiled down undeniable truth that must be realised and embraced for salvation?
I tried years ago and Theology is a hard nut to crack and is very divisive because it's intellectual and of the mind.
It begs the question can a simple minded person who hasn't got the capacity to understand determinism, or any other such lofty notions, be saved? Can a child be saved? Can someone who has never heard the Good News be saved on hearing it for the first time?
If the answer to that is yes then the rest is rhetoric
The completeness of the life, death and resurrection put paid to sin, death, the world, the flesh and the devil. A heavenly work that can not be added to nor taken away from.
Eternal Life is something for now, it's there and always has been.
Here is Salvation at work
"I'm a wreck, my life is going wrong I seem to blow up at the people and I hate my boss who doesn't pay me enough! Doesn't he know I could steal it all?"
The troubled, heavy laden and weary heart
You can now bring your troubled heart to the stillness and quietness of God and bathe in the water of life that says "you are accepted, complete, loved and forgiven" Surrendering your burdens and letting go is being born again. Trusting in the grace of God that you are cleansed and made whole and complete. You can't earn it, you can't fabricate it and it's not something that will happen in the future. It's now and Heaven is always knocking on the door of our hearts.
Salvation can feel a distance away but in Heaven it is true and in the Lord's prayer Jesus taught us to pray "Let it be on earth as it is in Heaven"
It's surrendering yourself to allow Heaven to manifest in your heart to reveal the fruits of the spirit. Love, Joy, Peace, Understanding, patience
It starts of as a seed and is very tender and fragile but as you rest in your salvation it grows until it becomes a tree that the birds of the air can rest on it.
The after life aside, Jesus was talking about a living flow of life, Eternal Life and that we can have it in our lives today, and now.
Again I am so glad that no understanding of Theology is required, just an answer...Your will be done
I tried years ago and Theology is a hard nut to crack and is very divisive because it's intellectual and of the mind.
It begs the question can a simple minded person who hasn't got the capacity to understand determinism, or any other such lofty notions, be saved? Can a child be saved? Can someone who has never heard the Good News be saved on hearing it for the first time?
If the answer to that is yes then the rest is rhetoric
The completeness of the life, death and resurrection put paid to sin, death, the world, the flesh and the devil. A heavenly work that can not be added to nor taken away from.
Eternal Life is something for now, it's there and always has been.
Here is Salvation at work
"I'm a wreck, my life is going wrong I seem to blow up at the people and I hate my boss who doesn't pay me enough! Doesn't he know I could steal it all?"
The troubled, heavy laden and weary heart
You can now bring your troubled heart to the stillness and quietness of God and bathe in the water of life that says "you are accepted, complete, loved and forgiven" Surrendering your burdens and letting go is being born again. Trusting in the grace of God that you are cleansed and made whole and complete. You can't earn it, you can't fabricate it and it's not something that will happen in the future. It's now and Heaven is always knocking on the door of our hearts.
Salvation can feel a distance away but in Heaven it is true and in the Lord's prayer Jesus taught us to pray "Let it be on earth as it is in Heaven"
It's surrendering yourself to allow Heaven to manifest in your heart to reveal the fruits of the spirit. Love, Joy, Peace, Understanding, patience
It starts of as a seed and is very tender and fragile but as you rest in your salvation it grows until it becomes a tree that the birds of the air can rest on it.
The after life aside, Jesus was talking about a living flow of life, Eternal Life and that we can have it in our lives today, and now.
Again I am so glad that no understanding of Theology is required, just an answer...Your will be done
Sonnet
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Why stop at transgenders? - how about those who commit adultery in their hearts, etc...
Sonnet
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Indeed.
I just take offence to the claim that some folk are excluded from the good news.
Cross Reference
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I believe that is what I wrote as being the prescribed way, wouldn't you concur?
Sonnet
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Yes. I was just trying to clarify.
That was found at https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/piper/piper_atonement.html that site included "Taken From*'What We Believe About the Five Points of Calvinism'*Bethlehem Baptist Church Staff" but the links are broken. You may be right it was taken from John owen. So far. Piper had copyrighted that page. If you can locate Owens version, that would be great. Either way, both men are right.
Sonnet
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Refuted - see above.
http://www.eternalsecurity.us/arminian_conundrum.htm
John Owen (1616 – 24 August 1683)
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