ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

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Sonnet

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Then this is your first refute on me. You have a pretty wife but I don't see how she can stand your daily lies. You should brush up on the truths of Calvinism so your lies won't be added to your guilts on judgement day.

An apology would have been nice.

The Bible still say the judge makes the unbelievers willing to believe and you want to talk back at him like he knows nothing. Hell is a lot more than 30 days in jail.

What? You mean the fact that I affirm God's omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresent - his sovereignty?
 

Cross Reference

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All folks receive the general call and you lie about it

All folks receive the general evidence of God because it is undeniable.. He calls those He chooses from that crowd; those that believe the evidence and it is not for salvation but discipleship that God makes such a call.
 

TulipBee

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No Calvinsit on this thread has proclaimed it. Only John Owen has (on the video) but we know he didn't mean it.
I didn't see the video. I proclaimed it and I meant that as well as the rest of the Bible truthers proclaimed it. To you, it's in invisible ink. You don't hear them
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
It's in the Bible.

Which of these statements is true?

1. Christ died for some of the sins of all men.

2. Christ died for all the sins of some men.

3. Christ died for all the sins of all men.

No one says that the first is true, for then all would be lost because of the sins that Christ did not die for. The only way to be saved from sin is for Christ to cover it with his blood.

The third statement is what the Arminians would say. Christ died for all the sins of all men. But then why are not all saved? They answer, Because some do not believe. But is this unbelief not one of the sins for which Christ died? If they say yes, then why is it not covered by the blood of Jesus and all unbelievers saved? If they say no (unbelief is not a sin that Christ has died for) then they must say that men can be saved without having all their sins atoned for by Jesus, or they must join us in affirming statement number two: Christ died for all the sins of some men. That is, he died for the unbelief of the elect so that God's punitive wrath is appeased toward them and his grace is free to draw them irresistibly out of darkness into his marvelous light. -John piper

But this is why you're not getting through to him/them. You're referrring to "sins" as the resulting actions from acting.
 

musterion

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sock_puppet_picture.jpg
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
How about you actually attempt to deal with the FACT that Jesus crucifixion is JUST AS the raising up of the bronze serpent - where not a single Israelite that was bitten was without access to the cure. They could, all of them, look to the serpent. Whether they looked or not, the cure was there for them.

Bitten Israelites translate to sinning humans...the source of the analogy points to the target of the analogy - that's how analogies work.

What if the perception is all wrong? What if Jesus didn't die for people, but for the sin OF the people?

What if Jesus died for the snake-bitten condition rather than the peoople themselves?

He was the scapegoat, who was made sin (not singular articular, but singular anarthrous). The scapegoat didn't have people placed upon it.

He didn't die for the whole world. He died for the SINS of the whole world. And sin is not a "something". It's a lack of something as a "somethinglessness".

He died for the hole or void in mankind. To fill it by being made sin, the singular anarthrous noun. The source of all acting and actions as the verb.

What if everyone is squabbling over the wrong thing? Focusing on the whos rather than the what.
 

TulipBee

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I'll take that as a 'yes'.
You're an epic fail for trying so hard to make the Calvinists arminians or in your own faslse theology.

I proclaim Romans 5:8,*“but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

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HOW CAN I BE PUT RIGHT?

Answer: Faith. Jesus died for our sins and rose again from the grave. By faith in him, our sins can be forgiven and we can be assured of living forever with God and one day being raised from the dead like Christ. So what does it mean to believe, to have faith? First, it means to grasp what salvation “by faith” means. Believing in Christ does not mean that we are forgiven for our past, get a new start on life, and must simply try harder to live better than we did in the past. If this is your mind-set, you are still putting your faith in yourself. You are your own Savior. You are looking to your moral efforts and abilities to make yourself right with God. But this will never work. No one lives a perfect life. Even your best deeds are tainted by selfish and impure motives. -Dr. Timothy Keller
 

TulipBee

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An apology would have been nice.



What? You mean the fact that I affirm God's omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresent - his sovereignty?
Me doing it your way is wrong in every way. Piper's version is different from Owens version and yet you want me to bow to you? I gave you a refute award but it's a cheap award just to get you to shut up with you false lies. It didn't really work on unregenerates and you want me to be sorry for that. I should have known better cause the Bible said you won't hear the gospel. You're a total waste of my time but I'm instructed to preach the gospel to you and yet you want to give God a hard time. You ought to take it easy on your lies cause the flames are really hot and lasts forever. You're not going to like it.
 

Sonnet

New member
I didn't see the video. I proclaimed it and I meant that as well as the rest of the Bible truthers proclaimed it. To you, it's in invisible ink. You don't hear them

Where did you proclaim it?

Calvinists on this forum have explicitly refused to proclaim it.
 

Sonnet

New member
Me doing it your way is wrong in every way. Piper's version is different from Owens version and yet you want me to bow to you?

Not for the Piper/Owen - but for your ad hominem attack.

I gave you a refute award but it's a cheap award just to get you to shut up with you false lies. It didn't really work on unregenerates and you want me to be sorry for that.

I have no idea what you re saying.

I should have known better cause the Bible said you won't hear the gospel. You're a total waste of my time but I'm instructed to preach the gospel to you and yet you want to give God a hard time.

Give God a hard time? Where?

You ought to take it easy on your lies cause the flames are really hot and lasts forever. You're not going to like it.

This is a lie? 1 John 2:2?
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
What if the perception is all wrong? What if Jesus didn't die for people, but for the sin OF the people?

What if Jesus died for the snake-bitten condition rather than the peoople themselves?

He was the scapegoat, who was made sin (not singular articular, but singular anarthrous). The scapegoat didn't have people placed upon it.

He didn't die for the whole world. He died for the SINS of the whole world. And sin is not a "something". It's a lack of something as a "somethinglessness".

He died for the hole or void in mankind. To fill it by being made sin, the singular anarthrous noun. The source of all acting and actions as the verb.

What if everyone is squabbling over the wrong thing? Focusing on the whos rather than the what.

:thumb:

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Can you briefly rephrase Piper's version so we can understand what you mean by actions?

I wouldn't present it like that at all. It focuses on "sin/s" the verb rather than "sin/s" the noun.

It's not about sinning (the verb) and the resulting acts. It's about the condition of what's missing from man being the source of all action.

Arminians are always arguing about the "doing" and "done" of sin/s the verb (and the resulting noun). Calvinists never counter with a correction of that perception, and instead focus on the same thing.
 
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