ECT God's grace: Can God arbitrarilly give it to anyone?

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Truster

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jsanford108 said:
How were they converted? By the witness of others. Aka: missionaries. All the apostles were missionaries of Christ.


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If you understood what conversion actually means you would understand it is the work of the Holy Spirit to convert.
 
J

jsanford108

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Truster said:
You are mistaken as well as confused. Mercy and grace are not the same thing. There is mercy in His providential care of all His creatures, but His grace is reserved for the election of grace.
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I never said they were the same. But they exist together.

When you say God reserves his grace, do you ascribe to the doctrine of election? Meaning, God saves some and damns others? Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.


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Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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jsanford108 said:
Yes. God gives mercy to his enemies.

When we sin, are we not in opposition to God? Thus, by an extent of mercy, when we repent, we are reconciled. This is Mercy.

God allowed opposition to Israel to flourish. Is this not mercy? Justice will surely come, but for now, God is merciful.


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I asked concerning God's grace, not His mercy.
 
Eagles Wings

Eagles Wings

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Truster said:
The reformed people often take the stoic stance when things go wrong because what affects them are not trials, but judgements. The judgements are either a taste of impending destruction or are for the correcting of the holy and for them alone. The trials sent for correction pass and the saint who enters a trial of correction never emerges as he went in. I know for an absolute fact that many reformed people outwardly profess acceptance while inwardly murmuring.
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There is a very fine pamphlet put out by a Reformed publisher which says in no uncertain words, that we are not to question or murmur at our Lord, for trials and discipline. I personally don't think we are to murmur or question. The one and only way that a saint will not, is through Christ's work in that soul.
 
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Truster

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Eagles Wings said:
There is a very fine pamphlet put out by a Reformed publisher which says in no uncertain words, that we are not to question or murmur at our Lord, for trials and discipline. I personally don't think we are to murmur or question. The one and only way that a saint will not, is through Christ's work in that soul.
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If there is no grace there will be either open rebellion or hidden complaints.
 
T

Truster

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Eagles Wings said:
A saint will only claim, Romans 8:28 in all circumstances, by Grace.

A excellent read is, "All Things For Good", by Thomas Watson, an expose on Romans 8.
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I left the reformers behind many years ago as they mix grace with law and the result is painful to say the least. It's not conviction its condemnation and yes I do know the difference.
 
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jsanford108

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Cross Reference said:
Too easy, this: Does God's mercy require faith?
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No. God gives mercy to those who don't believe in him. Atheists should be struck dead instantly for denying the existence of God, right? They are denying Truth, which is forsaking God (the unforgivable sin). Same with Satanists. Yet, God is merciful in allowing them to live.


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T

Truster

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Eagles Wings said:
What about:

https://www.amazon.com/Jeremiah-Burroughs/e/B0034QAVJW/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1
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Read it until it fell apart. Listened to it and read it online. It is useful doctrine. Before you start bringing up names I can assure you I have read most reformation works. After my conversion, I volunteered for 3 years in a reformed bookshop and had access to everything. When I make important decisions they are never spur of the moment. Especially when those decisions might affect the wondrous peace I know.

As the world is fond of saying, "been there done that".

The access to the reformed books gave me instant recognition when I heard preachers reading sermons verbatim under the pretence it was their work. I never forget a sermon read or heard and it has caused problems of some preachers. I also know the difference between and experienced sermon and an essay. This why I get annoyed when AMR starts cutting and pasting his 'stuff' because he thinks it's new to me. I don't just recognise Scripture I recognise doctrine and from whence it came.

I was once asked by a reformed preacher why I didn't visit anymore. I asked him if he'd ever eaten vomit and he recoiled in disgust. I said, now you know how I feel when I hear regurgitated teaching. I like my doctrine fresh.
 
Eagles Wings

Eagles Wings

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Truster said:
Read it until it fell apart. Listened to it and read it online. It is useful doctrine. Before you start bringing up names I can assure you I have read most reformation works. After my conversion, I volunteered for 3 years in a reformed bookshop and had access to everything. When I make important decisions they are never spur of the moment. Especially when those decisions might affect the wondrous peace I know.

As the world is fond of saying, "been there done that".

The access to the reformed books gave me instant recognition when I heard preachers reading sermons verbatim under the pretence it was their work. I never forget a sermon read or heard and it has caused problems of some preachers. I also know the difference between and experienced sermon and an essay. This why I get annoyed when AMR starts cutting and pasting his 'stuff' because he thinks it's new to me. I don't just recognise Scripture I recognise doctrine and from whence it came.

I was once asked by a reformed preacher why I didn't visit anymore. I asked him if he'd ever eaten vomit and he recoiled in disgust. I said, now you know how I feel when I hear regurgitated teaching. I like my doctrine fresh.
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So, your problem is not with the content of Reformed doctrine, just what you consider mishandling of it, or not giving credit where it is due?

I just have to ask about one more author that I like, yet read with care.

David Martyn Lloyd-Jones.

Thoughts?
 
T

Truster

New member
Eagles Wings said:
So, your problem is not with the content of Reformed doctrine, just what you consider mishandling of it, or not giving credit where it is due?

I just have to ask about one more author that I like, yet read with care.

David Martyn Lloyd-Jones.

Thoughts?
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I don't have a problem. I have the cure to all problems.

ML_J was an object of worship and he did nothing to discourage it. He passed this stinking reality on to many others who stand in pulpits to be admired by weak-kneed women and blind men. Who were made to tremble under the teaching of the law and felt the indignation from on high. They called these tears, "such a blessing" when indeed it was a taste of such wrath that was to come.

Thankfully the Almighty showed his true colours when ML-J was shown to be a Charismatic Pentecostal. Like many before him and indeed after him are men who pay lip-service to doctrine while the sheep require the scriptures are paid full doctrinal value.

He had a use in the will of Elohim as did Graham and that use was showing many people the wide gate.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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jsanford108 said:
Mercy is a grace. Grace is an extension of Mercy. They work in tandem.
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Do they, now? So God can give grace to the unrighteous, you say? Can God give His grace to the defiant if He wants to? . . administer Grace to those without faith???

"And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!” Luke 1:28 (ESV)

So which is it you believe Mary would receive: grace or mercy? Why?
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