Missionaries is another term for blind leaders of the blind.
ECT God's grace: Can God arbitrarilly give it to anyone?
- Thread starter Cross Reference
- Start date
Missionaries is another term for blind leaders of the blind.
Cross Reference
New member
How 'bout we just forget I asked.
Cross Reference
New member
On topic:
Can God grant grace to His enemies? Has He ever done so? Why not?
Is John 3:16 and act of grace or mercy?
Can God grant grace to His enemies? Has He ever done so? Why not?
Is John 3:16 and act of grace or mercy?
Last edited:
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Are you assuming He never has granted grace to His enemies or was your question intended to be "Why or why not?"
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Romans 5:8-11
I see John 3:16 more as grace than mercy simply because it is in the positive - it is something God did to provide something rather than being expressed as something God withheld that might be legitimately administered.
Cross Reference
New member
We, we. Whose we? Who are they?
And yet there is more concerning the wrath of God in the scriptures than His love.
Cross Reference
New member
Can God grant grace to His enemies? Has He ever done so? Why not?
Is John 3:16 and act of grace or mercy?
Is John 3:16 and act of grace or mercy?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
They are those God has granted grace - those who are also called His enemies.
I can't say I've ever been impressed with claims like this or that Jesus spoke more about hell than He did about anything else. For one thing, I don't think it's easily quantifiable so it comes off more like an disingenuous assertion. I don't mean it is disingenuous, but rather that it's not something that can be defined many different ways : specific words used, main topic of each sentence uttered etc...
I would say that the OT is a significant portrayal of God's mercy and the NT of His grace. Not that men in the OT didn't receive grace (active, positive provision from God) but that its overall message seems to be one of God's mercy. In the face of a law that no man could follow (and none did, perfectly) and the theme that the wages of sin is death - we see God repeatedly forbearing the judgments He promised and waiting sometimes hundreds of years giving Israel a chance to repent. In spite of them seeing His hand at work in some rather stark ways (Exodus from Egypt, sun standing still, military prominence etc...), they continued to go their own way - but God showed mercy far more often than He executed judgment.
And a continuing theme of the scriptures found in the NT is "...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ...". Needs very little commentary to show that. The gift of God...a giving, a provision - grace. The Grace of God has appeared to all men.
The more prominent theme of the scriptures (than God's wrath), I believe, is the kindness, mercy and forgiveness of God. The very fact that God reconciles His enemies - is that not just another exclamation point in the history of Grace?
Cross Reference
New member
Too bad you don't believe because it is a fact.
The wording of this piece shows that you have a lopsided view of the Eternal Almighty. You are also lopsided in your view of the evangelism, "for the wrath of Elohim is revealed from heaven against all irreverence and unjustness of men" Romans 1:18 Not that the love of Elohim or the mercy of Elohim is revealed from heaven.
It is also evident that you have not understood the Book of the Revelation as that would have righted your listing.
PS
The lopsided view which continually highlights love and mercy leaves no room for justice and judgement. This view is passed on to the children of reformed parents and causes a major crash when judgement falls on them or their friends. The equation goes like this:
Disaster occurs + Elohim is love x He is Almighty + Why did He "allow this" x If He existed He would never have allowed this to happen to: little babies, orphans, my best friend, my sister, my brother or my best friends family.
The = in this equation has only one conclusion. Elohim does not exist because if He did...
The lopsided view which continually highlights love and mercy leaves no room for justice and judgement. This view is passed on to the children of reformed parents and causes a major crash when judgement falls on them or their friends. The equation goes like this:
Disaster occurs + Elohim is love x He is Almighty + Why did He "allow this" x If He existed He would never have allowed this to happen to: little babies, orphans, my best friend, my sister, my brother or my best friends family.
The = in this equation has only one conclusion. Elohim does not exist because if He did...
"Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face".
nikolai_42
Well-known member
I don't isolate God' love from His justice and judgment - at least not entirely. In the midst of darkness and man's sin, God continually sent prophets to Israel warning them of judgment. His love meant that He gave them "space to repent". His love meant that He took them into the wilderness to show them what was in their hearts. His love meant He would subject Job to trial and suffering and it would result in His glory and Job's restoration. Knowing His Sovereignty means there is meaning and even more in everything that happens - even unimaginable tragedy. Even if the result is simply the glorification of God's name. The first thing we are taught to pray for is "Hallowed be Thy name". When that happens, man is brought low and the inhabitants of the earth learn righteousness when they see His judgments.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed
Matthew 25:24
Eagles Wings
New member
I know and fellowship with Reformed saints, and there is no one who reacts poorly to trials. In fact, we are encouraged to give glory to God in all circumstances, per Scripture. Job is our model. God's nature and attributes are all praiseworthy.
jsanford108
New member
That doesn't make sense. Mercy is an extension of grace. And vise versa. God gives grace due to his mercy, therefore we receive mercy by his grace.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
jsanford108
New member
No, missionaries are witnesses. Some are blind to their ignorance, and others choose to embrace ignorance. But not all missionaries are this.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
The reformed people often take the stoic stance when things go wrong because what affects them are not trials, but judgements. The judgements are either a taste of impending destruction or are for the correcting of the holy and for them alone. The trials sent for correction pass and the saint who enters a trial of correction never emerges as he went in. I know for an absolute fact that many reformed people outwardly profess acceptance while inwardly murmuring.
If they were converted themselves they wouldn't be missionaries.
jsanford108
New member
Yes. God gives mercy to his enemies.
When we sin, are we not in opposition to God? Thus, by an extent of mercy, when we repent, we are reconciled. This is Mercy.
God allowed opposition to Israel to flourish. Is this not mercy? Justice will surely come, but for now, God is merciful.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
jsanford108
New member
How were they converted? By the witness of others. Aka: missionaries. All the apostles were missionaries of Christ.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
You are mistaken as well as confused. Mercy and grace are not the same thing. There is mercy in His providential care of all His creatures, but His grace is reserved for the election of grace.