ECT God does NOT grant eternal life

Clete

Truth Smacker
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Angels can't procreate. Angels were individually created without blood or any other 'universal' biological connection by which salvation could be possible.

I agree that fallen angels cannot be saved but we are not told why and it has nothing to do with biology or an inability to procreate. In fact, there is strong biblical evidence that they are indeed able to produce children through human mothers. (See Gen. 6:1-7)

Further...

  • Angels are recorded on two occasions in Scripture as eating food, therefore they have some ability to interact with the material world.
  • Angels can at times be indistinguishable from human beings, and "some have entertained angels unawares," (Hebrews 13:2).
  • The sexual immorality of Sodom and Gommorah is described as "likewise" in comparison to the actions of the angels that "left their proper dwelling" and that Jesus has chained in darkness until Judgment(Jude 6 & 7).
  • We really don't know what angels can and cannot do, Scripture says little about them.
  • The unanimous position of Jewish and heathen authors prior to Philo of Alexandria is that the angels came down and sired children with women.

Resting in Him,
Clete

[source]
 

musterion

Well-known member
Angels can't procreate. Angels were individually created without blood or any other 'universal' biological connection by which salvation could be possible.

I'm not arguing the salvation part but for the rest, pure speculation. The Bible does not say either way on any of that.
 

Cross Reference

New member
I agree that fallen angels cannot be saved but we are not told why and it has nothing to do with biology or an inability to procreate. In fact, there is strong biblical evidence that they are indeed able to produce children through human mothers. (See Gen. 6:1-7)

Further...

  • Angels are recorded on two occasions in Scripture as eating food, therefore they have some ability to interact with the material world.
  • Angels can at times be indistinguishable from human beings, and "some have entertained angels unawares," (Hebrews 13:2).
  • The sexual immorality of Sodom and Gommorah is described as "likewise" in comparison to the actions of the angels that "left their proper dwelling" and that Jesus has chained in darkness until Judgment(Jude 6 & 7).
  • We really don't know what angels can and cannot do, Scripture says little about them.
  • The unanimous position of Jewish and heathen authors prior to Philo of Alexandria is that the angels came down and sired children with women.

Resting in Him,
Clete

[source]

That's your shortcoming, not mine. I gave understanding from scripture not from corrupted documents out of Egypt. I also read to make my desires fit the scriptures, not the other way around..

<back on ignore>
 

musterion

Well-known member
Context and "What is an angel?" given in the scriptures, more than define all that needs be defined for the rational mind to "connect he dots".

Now that I have your attention, the eternal life of Christ Himself is the believer's life. Thus, the believer does indeed receive eternal life.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
[*]The unanimous position of Jewish and heathen authors prior to Philo of Alexandria is that the angels came down and sired children with women.

We know that is not true. The sons of God married the daughters of men.

Genesis 6:2 "that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."

Angels don't marry.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Genesis 6:2 "that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."

Explain how would that even be news, much less something leading to wiping the Earth clean, were it solely humans involved.
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Explain how would that even be news, much less something leading to wiping the Earth clean, were it solely humans involved.

The scripture says the sons of God took wives. Jesus said angels don't marry nor are they given in marriage.

No wives for angels.
 

Danoh

New member
The scripture says the sons of God took wives. Jesus said angels don't marry nor are they given in marriage.

No wives for angels.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Was Adam a son of God?
 

Rosenritter

New member
We know that is not true. The sons of God married the daughters of men.

Genesis 6:2 "that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."

Angels don't marry.
If you read the new testament also it indicates that those Sons of God were angels that left their first estate, bound in chains until the judgment.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
That's your shortcoming, not mine. I gave understanding from scripture not from corrupted documents out of Egypt. I also read to make my desires fit the scriptures, not the other way around..

<back on ignore>

My primary reference was Genesis chapter 6, moron!
In fact, only one of the five other points in my post references anything at all that is extra-biblical and even that was only a supporting point (a quite valid one at that). So out of six points, five of them are directly biblical in nature! And even the one that wasn't biblical in nature did not use an Egyptian document to support the position. It's the opposite! Read the point again...

The unanimous position of Jewish and heathen authors prior to Philo of Alexandria is that the angels came down and sired children with women.​

Your shortcoming is between your ears, hypocrite!

Just keep me on ignore. Please!
 

Clete

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Silver Subscriber
We know that is not true. The sons of God married the daughters of men.

Genesis 6:2 "that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."

Angels don't marry.

And just how do we know that?

The answer is that we don't know that.

Further, we're talking about evil angels. On which planet do demons follow the rules?

Further still, the Hebrew word translated in the KJV as "wives" is 'Ishshah' (Strong's H802). It's a generic term meaning 'woman'. It does not have to mean "wife".

  • Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, H802 and brought her unto the man.
  • Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, H802 because she was taken out of Man.
  • Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: H802 and they shall be one flesh.
  • Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, H802 and were not ashamed.
  • Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, H802 Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
  • Gen 3:2 And the woman H802 said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
  • Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, H802 Ye shall not surely die:
  • Gen 3:6 And when the woman H802 saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
  • Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife H802 hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
  • Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman H802 whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
  • Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, H802 What is this that thou hast done? And the woman H802 said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
  • Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, H802 and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
  • Gen 3:16 Unto the woman H802 he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
  • Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, H802 and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

And that's just the uses of the word in the first three chapters of the bible. It's used 780 times in total. The meaning of the word undermines your argument completely.

Lastly, the context seems to make it impossible to rationally come to any other conclusion other than that demons were attempting to pollute humanity to the point that the birth of a savior was impossible. God rescued Noah because he was "perfect in his generations", meaning that he and his family had no Nephilim blood and were thus pure human. God could, therefore, start the race over with his family and still be able to produce a valid sacrifice for sin. Thus, even the context of the narrative itself lends credence to the notion that whoever the sons of God were, they were not human. Which would also explain why their offspring were giants rather than normal children.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
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