beloved57
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Adam sinned because he was a sinner, with a sinful nature of flesh that was not subject to the law of God Rom 8:7 !
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Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !
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Adam sinned because he was a sinner, with a sinful nature of flesh that was not subject to the law of God Rom 8:7 !
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Cross Reference
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RE above post:
See what I mean?
And that is just one version of a damning doctrine.
See what I mean?
And that is just one version of a damning doctrine.
Thanks for trying. I like to ask how is adam a sinner without a father?
blackbirdking
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Is he? Did God cause sin?
blackbirdking
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It doesn't give you much assurance, does it.
Is your flesh subject to the law of God?
blackbirdking
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Yep; really is.
Cross Reference
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The scriptures call him the son of God. What more is needed to be accepted as truth?
Subtletrend
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This is true for everybody, no one is saved apart from Divine Supernatural Intervention. Don't you think Calvinism and Tulip are just two more exercises of "freewill"?
Free will to read about tulip but God arranged the article about tulip to find its way into your hands. If God wants you to do something, He'll arrange things around you to make sure you'll read about tulip.
blackbirdking
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Yes; but teaching others, that God causes sin, goes against the character of God. Especially if one claim's that it was for his election, and for another's damnation.
blackbirdking
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Why do you think I don't belive that if that was what you thought?
Subtletrend
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Let me ask the Calvinists something:
You all believe in the Decalogue and all right...that as fruit of our salvation we should keep the Law of God.
And in keeping with the fourth commandment, you observe the first day of the week (not the 7th) as the Sabbath.
Why is that? Sounds like freewill to me...
You all believe in the Decalogue and all right...that as fruit of our salvation we should keep the Law of God.
And in keeping with the fourth commandment, you observe the first day of the week (not the 7th) as the Sabbath.
Why is that? Sounds like freewill to me...
I run parallel with God in God's time. In other words, my death had already happened in God's time. On my end, God and I are together. We knew each other before I was born. He was there when I sinned.
But on your time your question are like politics with trick questions and we don't answer them cause you wouldn't understand God. You'll take our answers and turn them into else due to you using your language. Our answers are not in normal human language. Spirit and our spirit are formless. Human language has form. So I'll tell you that God is with me when I sin. We are the cause together in my own opinion but I'm not separate from God. He is part of me like He always have. He predistines everything I do.
The Swiss are reputed to be very succinct. For example, when a normal person say something like 'I'm sorry I didn't quite catch that, could you repeat it for me please?', a Swiss person just says
'Huh?'
Here's what I garner from the above post: 'God is incomprehensible to me so I am entitled to be incomprehensible to others. And If I think you aren't going to agree with my incomprehensible answer I'm also entitled not to give you an answer anyway.'
Was I right?
Don't on any account say yes or no. Minimum responses must be 500 words.
blackbirdking
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If God commands, can any resist His will?
Are the damned going to hell because God willed it to be so?
blackbirdking
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So you are saved? How do you know?
And I'm not elect to be saved? How do you know?
So you and God are the cause together, of sin? But the part that you cause, He predestines you to cause? So He causes you to cause your part? In reality then, you are saying that God causes sin.
So now you believe that you're elect, I'm damned, and God causes it all. Please explain to me, what assurance you have, that God who causes sin, has elected you; and is not causing you to think you're elect, when really you are damned. He causes sin; He causes deceit.
beloved57
Well-known member
Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !
Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.
We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !
By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:
I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey" is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).
to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit
This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"
That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !
Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.
The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.
But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?
Heb 5:8-9
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !
Posted from the TOL App!
Posted from the TOL App!
Perhaps, it would be better if you explained your thoughts,
in a more coherent manner?
He/she sounds a bit confused, I think?