You forgot to say, "See ya at the judgment?"
Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
You forgot to say, "See ya at the judgment?"
beloved57
Well-known member
Why not rehearse the points of the posts 1069-70,72-73 ?
beloved57
Well-known member
Why not rehearse the points of the posts 1069-70,72-73 ?
beloved57
Well-known member
More on Total Depravity !
More on Total Depravity !
Another reason why one must be Born Again and given a New Nature thereby to perform Gospel Obedience's such as Faith and Repentance, its because by nature we are as the children of disobedience, for Paul writes here Eph 2:2-3
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Really a hopeless situation ! The above verses inform us of what we are by nature children of disobedience, and within that nature obedience is impossible, thats why we are by nature children of disobedience, in that nature we cannot become obedient, which is Paul's exact point here Rom 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
If we cannot be subject to the Law of God, then quite frankly we cannot be subject to God, because of our nature,its carnal and sold under sin Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The word sold in the greek is the word pipraskó:
I sell; pass: I am a slave to, am devoted to. :
i. e. entirely under the control of the love of sinning
Also the word is in the perfect tense :
As long as we remain in the flesh, what we are by nature, we are entirely under the control of sin, of disobedience.
Now for any to say that they can obey God in nature, while as a child of disobedience, its saying that we can stop being under the control of that spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience Eph 2:2 and we have done exactly what God's Word says we cannot do by nature in the flesh Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
As children of disobedience by nature we are not subject to God, that word subject means :
to place or rank under, to subject, mid. to obey
And Paul says that it cannot be obedient, not will not, but cannot which of course equals also will not !
All the antichrist followers who say they obeyed God while being children of disobedience by nature, they are liars, even liars against the Truth !
More on Total Depravity !
Another reason why one must be Born Again and given a New Nature thereby to perform Gospel Obedience's such as Faith and Repentance, its because by nature we are as the children of disobedience, for Paul writes here Eph 2:2-3
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Really a hopeless situation ! The above verses inform us of what we are by nature children of disobedience, and within that nature obedience is impossible, thats why we are by nature children of disobedience, in that nature we cannot become obedient, which is Paul's exact point here Rom 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
If we cannot be subject to the Law of God, then quite frankly we cannot be subject to God, because of our nature,its carnal and sold under sin Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The word sold in the greek is the word pipraskó:
I sell; pass: I am a slave to, am devoted to. :
i. e. entirely under the control of the love of sinning
Also the word is in the perfect tense :
As long as we remain in the flesh, what we are by nature, we are entirely under the control of sin, of disobedience.
Now for any to say that they can obey God in nature, while as a child of disobedience, its saying that we can stop being under the control of that spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience Eph 2:2 and we have done exactly what God's Word says we cannot do by nature in the flesh Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
As children of disobedience by nature we are not subject to God, that word subject means :
to place or rank under, to subject, mid. to obey
And Paul says that it cannot be obedient, not will not, but cannot which of course equals also will not !
All the antichrist followers who say they obeyed God while being children of disobedience by nature, they are liars, even liars against the Truth !
can someone here explain why all men won"t gather together on Judgment day?
beloved57
Well-known member
Saved unto obedience by Captain of their Salvation
Saved unto obedience by Captain of their Salvation
Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the [U]captain or author [/U]of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !
Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.
We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !
By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:
I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey") is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).
to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit
This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"
That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !
Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.
The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.
But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?
Heb 5:8-9
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !
Saved unto obedience by Captain of their Salvation
Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the [U]captain or author [/U]of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !
Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.
We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !
By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:
I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey") is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).
to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit
This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"
That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !
Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.
The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.
But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?
Heb 5:8-9
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !
blackbirdking
New member
You believe God caused Disobedience for His own glory.
May Christ be Glorified for any and all Disobedience to the Gospel !
You don't know if your elect.
You don't know if you're deceived.
You don't know if you're damned.
God may be playing you for a fool; there is no way of knowing.
beloved57
Well-known member
Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain or author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
He is the Author of them that are obeying Him, for that is evidence of their Salvation from Him. This is True because by nature they are as the children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We cannot obey God in that nature we have by nature, our obedience comes out of an New Nature which Christ is the Author of !
Again, He is the Author of Salvation specifically to those who are obeying Him, which means their obeying Him has been caused by Him being the Author of their Salvation.
We must be saved from or out of disobedience / unbelief, which we were made unto because of sin Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Unbelief here also means disobedience , and by nature we are in it permanently, nothing but New Birth can free us !
By nature we are imprisoned therein unto disobedience, so we must be saved out of it in order to become obedient, or to obey or as the word obey means in Heb 5:9 hupakouó:
I listen, hearken to, obey, answer, ("obey" is acting under the authority of the one speaking, i.e. really listening to the one giving the charge (order).
to hearken to a command, i. e. to obey, be obedient unto, submit
This by nature as carnal and in the flesh we cannot do Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Notice that Paul says " neither indeed can be"
That simply denotes inability to be subject to God by nature ! Being subject means obedience, or obeying Him !
Now understand what Heb 5:9 must be saying, That one does not first obey Jesus to get Eternal Salvation, But He saves them, Authors their Salvation so that they may now beging to obey Him.
The fact is, He cannot be the Author or causer of our Salvation our obedience, if in fact we are not saved by Him until after we become obedient on our own, that makes our own obedience the cause or author of our salvation.
But yet how could we obey Him, if we were not already saved out of disobedience ?
Heb 5:8-9
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Is teaching the same thing as Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
By His Obedience, those He represented become experimetnally obedient, just as those adam represented became experimentally disobedient ! Paul says of the Elect Titus 3:3
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But Christ's death changes that, and Authored our Obedience Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
May Christ be Glorified for any and all Obedience to the Gospel !
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blackbirdking
New member
Can't know that; don't know if God is deceiving us. Why bother to ask, since God caused deception?
Judgment for what? Everybody does God's will, according to Calvinism.
He is welcomed to join in my conversations just you are. I need all the support I can get. I use to use a lot of bible quotes but the quotes didn't work on arminians or unregenerates. All they got was the general calls but they didn't get the effective calls. I proclaimed but I was instructed not to convince people into salvation. The calvinist clearly understand the savation is of the Lord.
B57 posted more than once cause I didnt read carefully on the first time. More than once really means read the bible quotes carefully or it will slip by, agian.
blackbirdking
New member
Know yet?
You have all sorts of mental gaming blends in that reply. I was asking if everyone will appear before God on judgment day. Don't the court use "innocent", you may be free.
The calvinist knows God don't use deception. You got that elsewhere. The calvinist certainy knows God's will is always effective. I never heard of God going, "opps, I made a mistake. Where did you hear that?
blackbirdking
New member
You're right, God doesn't make mistakes; but he does change.
Calvinists believe God causes mistakes; that's what John Calvin taught. Do you want references? He taught that God is the cause of all causes.
Do you believe God caused sin; if so, do you believe He caused lies?
Calvinists do believe God does cause deception;
Why do they believe that?
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blackbirdking
New member
Just wasn't sure if you were really you; your writing seems to change from time to time.
Cross Reference
New member
So the question remains: How do you know you are of the elect? How do know you are being obedient to God when damning everyone who disagrees with your very obviously distorted "hate filled" opinion of His word. You do not display and never have displayed any love of God in anyway in all the years I have tried to make sense out of any of your 'distortions' of His Truth. Why did you ever allow yourself to get into that convoluted nonsensical lapasarian disposition, believing God decreed everything? What did He "decree" for you?
Where is God when a person falls down? Isn't He there?
Cross Reference
New member
Where was God when Jesus was being tempted?
I would believe God was with jesus at all times. How to you think?
God doesn't take a break from arranging circumstances that fulfill His Wills. The are no escape from God's plans
Cross Reference
New member
Indeed, He is, simply because He is omnipresent. However, His manifest presence, I am sure you would agree, is dependent on His purpose in any moment of His choosing. That leaves His conscientious presence to consider which is what leaves US when He wants to prove our hearts; to test US on our knowledge and obedience to His "written word", as Jesus demonstrated. How's that for a short version?. .
Read Luke 4: 1-14 to see how Jesus went into the wilderness and how He came out.