Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[beloved57]

How men make God unjust !

Whenever a so called preacher or Christian says that any sinner Christ died for can go to hell, or die in their sins, be lost, or any of that talk, they make God out to be unjust, and here's why !

Everyone Christ died for, He bare their sins, because He bare the sins of many Heb 9:28

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

All these many He bare their sins, have through Him, had all their sins, its debt, cancelled, justice has been completely satisfied by the blood of Christ, its now in Gods sight as though they never had sinned. But these false teachers tell us, that if these sinners, of the many Christ bare their sins, if they dont do something, if they dont repent, if they dont believe, if they dont call upon the name of the Lord, that God will yet again , call them into account for their sins ! If they dont do one of those things, it cancels out what Christ has done, and God imputes back unto them, charges them again for their sins, and they can die in their sins anyways Jn 8:24

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins


So if Christ has already bare their sins, and subsequently someway or somehow God will yet hold them accountable for their sins, this makes God unjust !

 

[Nanja]

How men make God unjust !

Whenever a so called preacher or Christian says that any sinner Christ died for can go to hell, or die in their sins, be lost, or any of that talk, they make God out to be unjust, and here's why !

Everyone Christ died for, He bare their sins, because He bare the sins of many Heb 9:28

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

All these many He bare their sins, have through Him, had all their sins, its debt, cancelled, justice has been completely satisfied by the blood of Christ, its now in Gods sight as though they never had sinned. But these false teachers tell us, that if these sinners, of the many Christ bare their sins, if they dont do something, if they dont repent, if they dont believe, if they dont call upon the name of the Lord, that God will yet again , call them into account for their sins ! If they dont do one of those things, it cancels out what Christ has done, and God imputes back unto them, charges them again for their sins, and they can die in their sins anyways Jn 8:24

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins


So if Christ has already bare their sins, and subsequently someway or somehow God will yet hold them accountable for their sins, this makes God unjust !

So True Brother!

That is the gross error of freewill religion, which teaches that Christ's blood was shed for all of mankind, yet many will end up in the second death to pay their own sin debt Rom. 6:23 as the goats do Rev. 21:8; Mat. 25:41.

However, the fact is that those Christ died for, His Sheep John 10:11,15, were already reconciled to God and abjured Righteous in His sight: They stand Justified in their Surety Saviour, Christ Jesus Heb. 7:22, based solely upon His Blood Work in their behalf Is. 53:6.

Rom. 5:9-10
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


So then, because no sin was imputed to them 2 Cor. 5:19, but to Christ instead 2 Cor. 5:21, and God had already declared them to be Righteous, it would be unjust of Him to punish them again.


And so, unlike freewill religion, there is nothing for God's Elect to boast about, because the Faith they are given in New Birth Gal. 5:22 is nothing they do, but is of Godly Origin.

 

[beloved57]

So True Brother!

That is the gross error of freewill religion, which teaches that Christ's blood was shed for all of mankind, yet many will end up in the second death to pay their own sin debt Rom. 6:23 as the goats do Rev. 21:8; Mat. 25:41.

However, the fact is that those Christ died for, His Sheep John 10:11,15, were already reconciled to God and abjured Righteous in His sight: They stand Justified in their Surety Saviour, Christ Jesus Heb. 7:22, based solely upon His Blood Work in their behalf Is. 53:6.

Rom. 5:9-10
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


So then, because no sin was imputed to them 2 Cor. 5:19, but to Christ instead 2 Cor. 5:21, and God had already declared them to be Righteous, it would be unjust of Him to punish them again.


And so, unlike freewill religion, there is nothing for God's Elect to boast about, because the Faith they are given in New Birth Gal. 5:22 is nothing they do, but is of Godly Origin.

This is a absolutely godly testimony!

 

[Nanja]

This is a absolutely godly testimony!

Thank You my Brother, and for all your godly teaching and instruction in the scriptures over the years.

Praising God for the Grace He has given us in Christ Jesus!

 

[beloved57]

Thank You my Brother, and for all your godly teaching and instruction in the scriptures over the years.

Praising God for the Grace He has given us in Christ Jesus!

Certainly in and by His Grace !

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Thank You my Brother, and for all your godly teaching and instruction in the scriptures over the years.

Praising God for the Grace He has given us in Christ Jesus!

Certainly in and by His Grace !

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

I can and will be a major pain. But to this, I have to nod my head with respect.

#Had to honestly express it
#I know you weren't asking for my opinion

 

[beloved57]

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Is water baptism a requirement for salvation or remission/forgiveness of sins?

The answer is no ! Remember the thief on the Cross? Surely he received remission of sins without water baptism! I myself before converted use to believe,from this verse that one must be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to get saved! I know now that is error. First, it must be noticed that Peter here was preaching the Gospel, the death, burial and resurrection, the same things Paul preached as the Gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4

Now we want to look at exactly who was to be baptized in vs 38, it was to them that first had to repent, a command, or an imperative. The word repent in the greek is the word metanoeó and means:
repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

Also here it's in the imperative mood, which means:

The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

So believe it or not, it's a law, no it's not the law of Moses, its the law of Christ See 1Cor 9:21;Gal 6:2, so in order to be baptized, one would have to obey the law of Christ! Remember that Christ is God, and the rule of scripture says this, the carnal mind is not subject to the Law of God/Christ Rom 8:7

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The word law here is without the definite article, it's the word nomos and means:

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law,anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

And that's what repent is in Acts 2:38, a command. So the command isn't to the carnal minded people, which all men by nature are by default, so its to them that have been made spiritual by newbirth. So they are saved already before they can repent!

 

[beloved57]

Also, later in the passage it again tells us who it was that the Apostles would baptize Acts 2:41

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

It was only those who gave evidence of having received the Gospel or Word. Just like Jesus said of Chosen disciples in Jn 17:8

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Paul wrote to the Thessalonians believers saying 1 Thess 2:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

So bottom line, in order to receive the word of God that it bears fruit, it must be received in good soil as Jesus said here Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The good ground is the new heart given in newbirth Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And that results in what? Vs 27

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them

Then they will do the command to repent, once they are given a new heart.

So a newbirth is required before we can repent, or receive Gods word, and be baptized.

 

[Nanja]

#2187

Is water baptism a requirement for salvation or remission/forgiveness of sins?

The answer is no ! Remember the thief on the Cross? Surely he received remission of sins without water baptism! I myself before converted use to believe,from this verse that one must be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to get saved!

I know now that is error. First, it must be noticed that Peter here was preaching the Gospel, the death, burial and resurrection, the same things Paul preached as the Gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4

I remember our discussion on baptism when I was just a newbie here ☺:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ment-What-did-it-REALLY-Accomplish/page43#633

Now we want to look at exactly who was to be baptized in vs 38, it was to them that first had to repent, a command, or an imperative. The word repent in the greek is the word metanoeó and means:
repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.

Also, later in the passage it again tells us who it was that the Apostles would baptize Acts 2:41

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

It was only those who gave evidence of having received the Gospel or Word. Just like Jesus said of Chosen disciples in Jn 17:8

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Paul wrote to the Thessalonians believers saying 1 Thess 2:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

So bottom line, in order to receive the word of God that it bears fruit, it must be received in good soil as Jesus said here Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The good ground is the new heart given in newbirth Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And that results in what? Vs 27

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them

Then they will do the command to repent, once they are given a new heart.

So a newbirth is required before we can repent, or receive Gods word, and be baptized.

So True, it's the works that we do after newbirth that pleases God Rom. 8:9.
And It's only once a person is Born of the Spirit is he able to hear [akouō] comprehend/ understand God's Words John 8:47.

No one can obey the law of Christ unless he is born again 1 Cor. 9:21; Gal. 6:2 because the carnal man is not subject to the law of God / Christ Rom. 8:7.

And no one can choose by is own will to be born again.

It's God who has chosen according to His Will Eph. 1:11 those who shall receive the seed into good ground Mat. 13:23; and those who shall receive the seed by the way side Mat. 13:19, or into stony places, or among the thorns Mat. 13:20-22.

 

[beloved57]

#2187



I remember our discussion on baptism when I was just a newbie here ☺:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ment-What-did-it-REALLY-Accomplish/page43#633







So True, it's the works that we do after newbirth that pleases God Rom. 8:9.
And It's only once a person is Born of the Spirit is he able to hear [akouō] comprehend/ understand God's Words John 8:47.

No one can obey the law of Christ unless he is born again 1 Cor. 9:21; Gal. 6:2 because the carnal man is not subject to the law of God / Christ Rom. 8:7.

And no one can choose by is own will to be born again.

It's God who has chosen according to His Will Eph. 1:11 those who shall receive the seed into good ground Mat. 13:23; and those who shall receive the seed by the way side Mat. 13:19, or into stony places, or among the thorns Mat. 13:20-22.

Amen Sister!

 

[adelpit346]

just a view...
but perhaps the many was only the wheat and so could not have included the tare
so the all that could not be saved He did not die for, but for only those that He sent into the world that had a willing spirit....the insane He die for, as so He informed THEFATHER that previously did not know for THEFATHER does not pry into the inner workings of the righteous man, for so He was and is righteous.
there are as many opinions of GOd as there are men and that will continue until a man can prove he is Christian and can imitate paul.
remember just a view

 

[beloved57]

God created the vessels of Wrath for His purpose/pleasure!

I know carnal men can't receive this truth, but God in His Sovereign good pleasure hath done this and He should be feared! Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Proverbs 16:4
4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

It is God's will that many if not the majority of mankind are vessels of Wrath being fitted for destruction. God's Sovereign will has determined who shall be and not be the vessels of Wrath, and not the will of the creature. The number is fixed and cannot be changed. It was determined by Him from eternity.

 

[beloved57]

1 Thessalonians 5:9

or God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

God has predetermined who shall be saved and who shall be lost. Man's will has nothing to do with it, He decided it before any man had a being.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !

If you are in Christ you are free indeed...

#Unless you're Nang and B57
# :chuckle:

 

[Nanja]

1 Thessalonians 5:9

or God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

God has predetermined who shall be saved and who shall be lost. Man's will has nothing to do with it, He decided it before any man had a being.

Precisely Brother!

Those in false religion erroneously think that God creates all men the same, and waits to see who will choose by his own freewill to become wicked.

But the fact is He created them according to His Will and Purpose to be wicked, hence the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction Rom. 9:22.

Another good scripture example is:

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

It was God's Eternal Purpose for Christ to be slain by wicked hands, so He created them that way.

He has created all mankind to fulfill His Purpose in Christ and they are appointed to be exactly as He so Desires.

Job 23:13-14
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. 14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

 

[beloved57]

Precisely Brother!

Those in false religion erroneously think that God creates all men the same, and waits to see who will choose by his own freewill to become wicked.

But the fact is He created them according to His Will and Purpose to be wicked, hence the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction Rom. 9:22.

Another good scripture example is:

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

It was God's Eternal Purpose for Christ to be slain by wicked hands, so He created them that way.

He has created all mankind to fulfill His Purpose in Christ and they are appointed to be exactly as He so Desires.

Job 23:13-14
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. 14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Amen Sister

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[freelight]

Amen Sister

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Tagteaming sista Nanja doesn't do away with free will, but denying your given free will could actually keep you from accepting/obtaining the salvation of the Lord. Remember, all the verses that show God giving us a choice between 'blessing' and 'cursing',....'life' and 'death',....CHOOSE which you will,....the choice is yours to make. If you deny your 'free will', you deny your very freedom as a sentient being, and have 'gridlocked' yourself into a theology of 'bondage'. Believing as you do is a CHOICE. You'll see that sooner or later.

 

[beloved57]

Tagteaming sista Nanja doesn't do away with free will, but denying your given free will could actually keep you from accepting/obtaining the salvation of the Lord. Remember, all the verses that show God giving us a choice between 'blessing' and 'cursing',....'life' and 'death',....CHOOSE which you will,....the choice is yours to make. If you deny your 'free will', you deny your very freedom as a sentient being, and have 'gridlocked' yourself into a theology of 'bondage'. Believing as you do is a CHOICE. You'll see that sooner or later.

Post 2193 please read it!

 

[freelight]

1 Thessalonians 5:9

or God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

God has predetermined who shall be saved and who shall be lost. Man's will has nothing to do with it, He decided it before any man had a being.

There is no reason to assume that 'predestination' or 'foreordination' is absolutely 'pre-set' to annul all freedom of choice, especially where God's will or even decree allows for his freedom to choose between blessings and cursing, life and death, as He has already declared in the OT with his people, giving them such freedom, and encouraging them to choose the better part of life

Naturally,...in God's will he includes the provisional features of the consequences of choosing life, and for choosing death, so these harvests of choice, their potentials and possibilities are already known to God in his omniscience. Divine providence includes all the variables and consequences for free will decisions, - all potential realities or outcomes are known to God, thus all destinies are provisional, so that naturally....choice determines the ultimates and conditions of life or death, salvation or destruction.

 

[beloved57]

There is no reason to assume that 'predestination' or 'foreordination' is absolutely 'pre-set' to annul all freedom of choice, especially where God's will or even decree allows for his freedom to choose between blessings and cursing, life and death, as He has already declared in the OT with his people, giving them such freedom, and encouraging them to choose the better part of life

Naturally,...in God's will he includes the provisional features of the consequences of choosing life, and for choosing death, so these harvests of choice, their potentials and possibilities are already known to God in his omniscience. Divine providence includes all the variables and consequences for free will decisions, - all potential realities or outcomes are known to God, thus all destinies are provisional, so that naturally....choice determines the ultimates and conditions of life or death, salvation or destruction.

Junk!