beloved57
Well-known member
As can you- we are each sharing our 'understanding', 'knowledge' or 'insight' presently possessed, articulating such as we know how. I continue to share my perspectives which I feel are touching on important points regarding 'free will', its implications, extensions and import. I'm also open to reconsider my viewpoints and have them 'modified' or 'adjusted' if better understanding or knowledge is forthcoming, are you? - this includes both intellectual and spiritual understanding, wisdom and foresight. - knowledge and revelation is progressive, unless you already have complete and absolute knowledge of anything, and at present the only Being that has such, is 'God'
Again,...we are merely comparing one's understanding of 'God' with another understanding :sherlock: - if we are students of truth, we are ever available to become 'learned' on any given subject, open to continuous revelation.
This passage used as a 'polemic' device here does not pertain to the subject at hand, but is a general description from Paul on religious life in Christ in general. Our specific topic concerning 'free will' is more complex, despite your favor of using Paul's writings to support your particular 'theology'
To reiterate, are you assuming the 'double predestination' view that souls are pre-ordained by a decree at some point in eternity past, to be either 'saved' or 'unsaved', and that there is nothing whatsoever a soul can do to choose against what was predestined or pre-ordained by decree at that point in eternity past? (in this case to either 'salvation' or 'damnation')? If so this violates the essential proposition of God's very nature as Love, and his will that all be saved, giving the opportunity of salvation and eternal life for all who so would choose to respond to Love's call. The very assumption of what Calvinists refer to as 'Preterition' (the passing over sinner's left to their own devices, iniquity and damnation, to run its own course with no saving grace given, being 'ommitted'(being passed over) not included in his divine will).... discounts and impugns the very character of Deity. This 'version' of 'God' is selfish, arbitrary, egotistical, partial, divided and self-aggrandizing. Such a 'belief' is repugnant to reason, insane to logic, and diametrically opposed to Love. It is further unreasonable or absurd to believe that this 'God' actually CHOOSES to damn thousands of souls to hellfire, to somehow make his love or greatness...more glorious! This is the epitome of retarded logic, to say nothing of religious insanity. - and that's just for starters.....
RC Sproul attempts to show a more refined Reformed Theology position here, separating it from 'hyper-calvinism', as if to present it as more 'sanitized' or justified,....since the softer Reformed position does all it can not to lay the cause of man's damnation on God himself. Unfortunately,....by 'Preterition', God is passing by thousands of souls, not choosing to save them, withdrawing his grace from them. Just letting them DIE, allowing them to perish, not extending one iota of help or relief (totally abandoning them). This is the case, no matter what 'version' of 'Calvinism' or 'Reformed Theology' you espouse. If any contest this, feel free to expound. It was noted earlier by AMR that his brand of Calvinism differs from the more 'hyper' or 'heretical' form of Calvinism espoused by b57 and Nanja. Whether you 'hyper' season the stew, or just 'soft boil' it in the Calvinist kitchen,....by 'Preterition'...God is 'passing over'(abandoning) thousands of souls, choosing not to save them, when in His omnipotence....He COULD extend to them the grace to be saved, at least the opportunity. Even this he refuses. The nature and character of such a 'God' speaks for itself. - and a scary, heartless, monster of a 'god' is what you have.
Now show me a scripture that says man has a freewill. Man can't come to Christ without being drawn by the Father Jn 6:44
