Frankin Graham says forgive this guy.

[Poly]

Today I heard the father of one of the victims say that he felt sorry for the murderer and his family and that he forgave him. :doh:

How could a father say this of his daughter's murderer? :nono:

 

[PlastikBuddha]

Today I heard the father of one of the victims say that he felt sorry for the murderer and his family and that he forgave him. :doh:

How could a father say this of his daughter's murderer? :nono:

"The quality of mercy is not srained/ but falleth like the gentle rain from heaven." or something like that- my memory is far from photographic...
Probably the father understood that the shooter was a sad, twisted, insane shell of a human being rotted from within by envy and hate.

 

[noguru]

On Fox News this morning Frankin Graham (son of Billy Graham) was asked by the host if we should forgive Virginia Tech murderer Cho Seung-Hui and Franklin responded....

"Of course we should forgive him!"

And we wonder why so many people think Christianity is irrational. :doh:

Please... please... please Christian leaders.... read your Bible's, speak the truth, preach the gospel.... but preach it correctly and with wisdom.

Jesus said....

“Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him." Luke 17:3

Cho, wasn't repentant! He even took the time to make a video and overnight it to media outlets between murders!! You can't forgive that kind of evil! The best thing to do is rejoice that he is suffering in hell for his wickedness.

Love what is good and hate what is evil (Romans 12:9). Cho was/is evil.

There are two ways of looking at this.

1.) Only the people he killed and their families are victims of his crime.

2.) The rest of the world is also a victim to his crimes because we had to witness the horror of his acts and the depraved indifference of this man.

When Jesus was dying on the cross, He said "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." Some Christians believe he was referring to a select group of people present at the crucifixion and it is not a principle that should be applied universally to all people who are ignorant of their trangressions against others. I am not one of those Christians.

On the other hand, I do not believe (only God knows for certain) this man was ignorant of his transgressions against others. He justified his acts in his mind prior to commiting these crimes. His behavior is exactly what I despise in many humans. He turned his own hurt into anger and then poured it back into the world (probably on people who had no personal connection with the cause of his hurt and anger), instead of letting it die with him. In any case this man did not forgive the trangressions, real or imagined, against him. He caused other people much harm because of his inability to forgive, then killed himself. He made his own bed. I say let him sleep in it. And let it be a lesson for others.

 

[Cracked]

As we judge, so shall we be judge... that being the case, I'm quick to forgive and would rather pray for mercy than justice.

Those things being said, what a horrible situation for the friends and families of the vicitims...

 

[PlastikBuddha]

There are two ways of looking at this.

1.) Only the people he killed and their families are victims of his crime.

2.) The rest of the world is also a victim to his crimes because we had to witness the horror of his acts and the depraved indifference of this man.

When Jesus was dying on the cross, He said "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." Some Christians believe he was referring to a select group of people present at the crucifixion and it is not a principle that should be applied universally to all people who are ignorant of their trangressions against others. I am not one of those Christians.

On the other hand, I do not believe this man was ignorant of his transgressions against others. He justified his acts in his mind prior to commiting these crimes. His behavior is exactly what I despise in many humans. He turned his own hurt into anger and then poured it back into the world, instead of letting it die with him.

Why do so many people these days feel the need to take others with them when they cry "uncle" to the universe? The twisted little monster wanted fame- and he is getting it. His manifesto and his videos are on every station. It is disgusting.

 

[noguru]

Why do so many people these days feel the need to take others with them when they cry "uncle" to the universe? The twisted little monster wanted fame- and he is getting it. His manifesto and his videos are on every station. It is disgusting.

He wanted fame and what he got was infamy. It is a travesty that in his case he could not just "go quietly into this good night".

But on a positive note at least we don't have to hear about Anna Nicole so much any more.

 

[Silk Queen]

23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

Not saying it is easy not even saying I could do it but Jesus says forgive.

 

[aikido7]

Today I heard the father of one of the victims say that he felt sorry for the murderer and his family and that he forgave him. :doh:

How could a father say this of his daughter's murderer? :nono:

This tragedy brings to mind the Amish who forgave the gunman who killed five girl students at their school. Like Jesus, they were able to transcend their tribalism and join the larger family of humankind. That they did so almost immediately tells us how important forgiveness is.

God causes the sun to rise on both the bad and the good, and sends rain on both the just and the unjust. --Matthew 5:45

That's the basis of a fairly radical notion of God. A God who treats all human beings evenhandedly is not much in evidence in either testament. The God pictured in the Bible is highly partial and often vindictive.

The God of Jesus, in contrast, appears to have no favorites. The cosmic background of life is apparently neutral and thus inclusive. Tribal enemies rather than personal enemies were the focus of Jesus' concern, as evidenced in his parable of the good Samaritan. In that parable, the enemy is the Samaritan whose own tribe had been at metaphorical and actual war with the Judeans for many centuries.

 

[Bright Raven]

Forgiveness is a choice.

 

[The Barbarian]

Jesus became wholly man in part to be the ideal man. I will follow His example. You may choose your own path, of course.

Do you think murder victims in heaven have an attitude of forgiveness or a desire for vengeance towards their unrepentant murderers?

I think they are, if they know about them, filled with pity for such souls who would likely be in Hell with Satan. If we truly follow God, who says that He is unwilling that any be lost, then we would feel likewise.

God specifically tells us to forgive those who trespass against us, and He didn't say "forgive those who trespass against us, if they are repentent." If a man repents, you are obligated to forgive him. But that doesn't mean that you should forgive only the repentent.

And stop trying to use scripture like a lawyer.

I short time ago, I read of the Amish who forgave the demented man who killed some of their children. I was awed and humbled by their determination to follow Jesus. You can at least try.

 

[bob b]

It would be both economically efficient as well as the Christian thing to do to forgive the sins of all criminals and thus empty out all our costly prisons.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I think they are, if they know about them, filled with pity for such souls who would likely be in Hell with Satan. If we truly follow God, who says that He is unwilling that any be lost, then we would feel likewise.

You believe some people are in hell? Why aren't they forgiven and in heaven?

 

[red77]

Jesus became wholly man in part to be the ideal man. I will follow His example. You may choose your own path, of course.



I think they are, if they know about them, filled with pity for such souls who would likely be in Hell with Satan. If we truly follow God, who says that He is unwilling that any be lost, then we would feel likewise.

God specifically tells us to forgive those who trespass against us, and He didn't say "forgive those who trespass against us, if they are repentent." If a man repents, you are obligated to forgive him. But that doesn't mean that you should forgive only the repentent.

And stop trying to use scripture like a lawyer.

I short time ago, I read of the Amish who forgave the demented man who killed some of their children. I was awed and humbled by their determination to follow Jesus. You can at least try.

Indeed, if we're only supposed to forgive those who repent then how can we forgive our enemies or those who persecute us? There's no proviso declaring only if they ask for fogiveness, the simple fact is it can be a lot harder in life to cling onto anger than to forgive those who hurt us....

 

[fool]

Someone once told me that the sick are made well in Heaven.
This guy was sick.
Once made whole he might have repented of his wicked deed.
And be washed in the blood of the lamb.

Explain where I've got this wrong?

 

[Sozo]

Did Jesus forgive these people...

""Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, 'If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' "Consequently you bear witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. "Fill up then the measure of the guilt of your fathers. "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you escape the sentence of hell? "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar."

 

[Silk Queen]

It would be both economically efficient as well as the Christian thing to do to forgive the sins of all criminals and thus empty out all our costly prisons.

Forgiveness is different than paying a penalty for our wrongs.
Jesus said forgive why don't you see he said forgive?
If it was one of my family members that was shot, I would have to forgive them, even though it would be a struggle I am sure.
Then I could choose the other option to hold bitterness and hate for the rest of my life.
That would only hurt me.
This don't mean they should not spend the rest of their life in prison or even the death penalty.

 

[aikido7]

Did Jesus forgive these people...

""Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, 'If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' "Consequently you bear witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. "Fill up then the measure of the guilt of your fathers. "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you escape the sentence of hell? "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar."

Most biblical scholars use criteria to separate what the verifiable figure of Jesus probably said and did from the Jesus whose agenda matches the community who wrote about him.

Like many believers today who use their biblical interpretation of Jesus to sanction all sorts of issues and actions, Matthew's audience is hearing a Jesus who is clearly on their side in bitter doctrinal disputes with other Jews.

I fully realize that most Christians on this website who idolize an inerrant text will not agree with this interpretation, so they have the difficult task of somehow reconciling this vehement and unforgiving Jesus with the Jesus who counsels a kingdom of forgiveness and understanding.

 

[freddyfred]

It just goes to show that religion is built on man's imagination when Christians can't even agree on such a core concept as forgiveness.

All you can do is quote what some men said that another man said and still then you don't agree what that means! Can't any of you see that it's all just the (jumbled and often contradictory) words of some men 2000 years ago?

 

[The Barbarian]

If Jesus could explicitly forgive those who tortured Him and put him on the cross (and who were obviously not repentant), then I think we are not too good to forgive those who trespass against us.

As I said, any of you who think He was wrong, are free to do it your own way, but I will follow God.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

If Jesus could explicitly forgive those who tortured Him and put him on the cross (and who were obviously not repentant), then I think we are not too good to forgive those who trespass against us.

What did Jesus forgive them for? What did He say?

As I said, any of you who think He was wrong, are free to do it your own way, but I will follow God.

Great! But you didn't answer my question....

I asked...

You believe some people are in hell? Why aren't they forgiven and in heaven?