Frankin Graham says forgive this guy.

[Nathon Detroit]

Jesus said we must forgive to gain forgiveness.
Promoting forgiveness is ultimate obedience.

True, we should forgive those who repent. It's wrong to not forgive the repentant (assuming of course the sin was against us).

Notice how Jesus explains it....

“And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.” - Luke 17:4

Lets drive the point home even further...

And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you. - Ephesians 4:32

Glenda, if we are to forgive others in the manner that Christ forgave us, we must ask a vital question....

Did Christ forgive you with.... or without.... your repentance?

 

[Minerva]

WE arent supposed to forgive him in the first place as WE were not the victim's. It is up to GOD to forgive him should he REPENT for his sins and ASK HIM for forgiveness. The only thing we could have done were he still alive is PRAY that HE ASK FOR FORGIVENESS from GOD.

What a goob!

 

[Bright Raven]

This is rather interesting. :think:
Matthew 6:14,15 (KJV)
14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I do not see a caveat here about repentance. You repent, I forgive. You do not repent, I do not forgive. Is that what scripture teaches? Isn't repentance the act that brings reconcilliation? Is repentance required in order to forgive? Should your children sin in some way toward you, would you withhold love and forgiveness until they repent?

 

[Servo]

This is rather interesting. :think:
Matthew 6:14,15 (KJV)
14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I do not see a caveat here about repentance. You repent, I forgive. You do not repent, I do not forgive. Is that what scripture teaches? Isn't repentance the act that brings reconcilliation? Is repentance required in order to forgive? Should your children sin in some way toward you, would you withhold love and forgiveness until they repent?

See post #21.

And again:
“Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him." Luke 17:3

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I do not see a caveat here about repentance. You repent, I forgive. You do not repent, I do not forgive. Is that what scripture teaches?

Yes, that is indeed what the scriptures teach.

God didn't have to re-explain every single thing every time He mentioned something.

God tells us clearly how and when to forgive (upon repentance), He also tells us that we are wrong to NOT forgive. He doesn't need to re-explain the basics of forgiveness (upon repentance) when He explains that it is wrong to not forgive.

In other words the following two things are BOTH true.....

A. It's wrong to forgive the unrepentant.
B. It's wrong to NOT forgive the repentant.

Should your children sin in some way toward you, would you withhold love and forgiveness until they repent?

Assuming this was an actual sin....

If I forgave them without their repentance I would be withholding love from them. You have it exactly backwards.

 

[billwald]

What is the point of forgiving dead people? Should we forgive Adam for eating the Apple? The concept is pointless.

 

[CRASH]

On Fox News this morning Frankin Graham (son of Billy Graham) was asked by the host if we should forgive Virginia Tech murderer Cho Seung-Hui and Franklin responded....

"Of course we should forgive him!"

And we wonder why so many people think Christianity is irrational. :doh:

Please... please... please Christian leaders.... read your Bible's, speak the truth, preach the gospel.... but preach it correctly and with wisdom.

Jesus said....

“Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him." Luke 17:3

Cho, wasn't repentant! He even took the time to make a video and overnight it to media outlets between murders!! You can't forgive that kind of evil! The best thing to do is rejoice that he is suffering in hell for his wickedness.

Love what is good and hate what is evil (Romans 12:9). Cho was/is evil.

Sad, very sad.....

 

[Minerva]

This is rather interesting. :think:
Matthew 6:14,15 (KJV)
14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I do not see a caveat here about repentance. You repent, I forgive. You do not repent, I do not forgive. Is that what scripture teaches? Isn't repentance the act that brings reconcilliation? Is repentance required in order to forgive? Should your children sin in some way toward you, would you withhold love and forgiveness until they repent?

I think the key point here is that forgiveness would imply that someone had transgressed against you, in which case you should forgive them. I think we are to forgive those who trangress against us, yes, but as in the case with this kid who murdered all these people, he did nothing against me, I have nothing to forgive him for. I doubt he asked Jesus to forgive him before he shot himself so he is an unrepentant sinner in which case God does not just freely hand out passes for eternal life.

I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.

To blaspheme against the holy spirit is to reject Christ and not ask forgiveness in which case, you get none.

 

[Tico]

Should your children sin in some way toward you, would you withhold love and forgiveness until they repent?

Love and foregiveness are not synonymous. In fact, it wouldn´t be loving at all to forgive someone who didn´t ask for it nor was repentant. Take the example of the child. Is it loving to tell that child after he defiantly disobeys that he is foregiven and that his sin is no more in your eyes? What will the result be? He will continue to defiantly disobey because he knows that his unrighteous deeds will always be counted as righteousness. That´s not love, that encourages defiance and disobedience. Who knows, maybe someday after years of learning the art of selfishness, defiance and disobedience he´ll grow up to kill 33 people and then in the ultimate act of self-centeredness, shoot himself.

 

[Freedomcry]

No, the definition of Justice...

One who obtains pleasure and gratification by the infliction of pain and suffering on others is known as a sadist.

 

[Sozo]

One who obtains pleasure and gratification by the infliction of pain and suffering on others is known as a sadist.

I often suffer through the pain and anguish of reading some of your posts. Do you enjoy that?

 

[Freedomcry]

I often suffer through the pain and anguish of reading some of your posts. Do you enjoy that?

I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[Turbo]

One who obtains pleasure and gratification by the infliction of pain and suffering on others is known as a sadist.

"Others" is too broad. We're talking specifically about a mass murderer here. :duh: We don't take pleasure in the suffering of the innocent.

 

[Freedomcry]

"Others" is too broad. We're talking specifically about a mass murderer here. :duh: We don't take pleasure in the suffering of the innocent.

So, as long as the person isn't innocent, you take pleasure in their suffering?

 

[nikolai_42]

True, we should forgive those who repent. It's wrong to not forgive the repentant (assuming of course the sin was against us).

Notice how Jesus explains it....

“And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.” - Luke 17:4

Lets drive the point home even further...

And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you. - Ephesians 4:32

Glenda, if we are to forgive others in the manner that Christ forgave us, we must ask a vital question....

Did Christ forgive you with.... or without.... your repentance?

While I agree that we aren't the ones that need to forgive him, the principle still applies that forgiveness without repentance isn't without precedent in scripture :

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?
I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.
And Moses said unto the LORD, Then the Egyptians shall hear it, (for thou broughtest up this people in thy might from among them)
And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, that thou LORD art seen face to face, and that thy cloud standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.
Now if thou shalt kill all this people as one man, then the nations which have heard the fame of thee will speak, saying,
Because the LORD was not able to bring this people into the land which he sware unto them, therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness.
And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my lord be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,
The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.
And the LORD said, I have pardoned according to thy word:
But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.
Numbers 14:11-21

It seems to me that the history of Israel was one of continual forgiveness - often without repentance by Israel, but thanks only to the intercession of one who loved God on Israel's behalf. Daniel's prayer comes to mind as well.

If the intercessions of Moses and Daniel are to be considered types of Christ, then Christ's command to forgive need not be incumbent upon someone asking for your forgiveness.

But again, I do think it's a little arrogant to say you forgive someone who did you no wrong personally. It's the principle of unrequested forgiveness I agree with. I think Stephen did as well :

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 7:59,60

And we all know who was present consenting to Stephen's death. If Stephen hadn't asked for forgiveness, it's conceivable Paul would have gone to his death an unrepentant Pharisee!

 

[aikido7]

On Fox News this morning Frankin Graham (son of Billy Graham) was asked by the host if we should forgive Virginia Tech murderer Cho Seung-Hui and Franklin responded....

"Of course we should forgive him!"

And we wonder why so many people think Christianity is irrational. :doh:

It is irrational to believe that Jesus had a bodily resurrection.
It is irrational to love your enemies and forgive those who hate you and despitefully use you.
It is also irrational to turn to the love and protection of Christ in a world full of sin.

It is rational secular scientism which insists that Scripture be taken literally.

So if the Bible says that Jesus is the Lamb of God does that not mean that Mary had a little lamb?

 

[SteveG.]

The only person(s) who could forgive him would be his victims and there are two big problems there;
A) The murderer (Cho) is dead and cannot ask for forgiveness
B) His victims are also dead and cannot render said forgiveness
C) Those who survived cannot forgive him due to the fact that he is not alive
and able to even ask.
It's not Franklin Graham's place to say such a thing to begin with, since he isn't one of Cho's victims either. As for the concept of forgiveness without the perpetrator asking, no such forgiveness could be applicable to a dead person anyway, so such an act would be pointless.

 

[noguru]

I often suffer through the pain and anguish of reading some of your posts. Do you enjoy that?

Well, then you must be a masochist.

 

[Cracked]

How can you forgive a dead guy? How can withhold forgiveness from a dead guy?
:boggle:

 

[noguru]

"Others" is too broad. We're talking specifically about a mass murderer here. :duh: We don't take pleasure in the suffering of the innocent.

But according to the literalist take on scripture no one is innocent accept Jesus.