Forgiveness

[Turbo]

Sozo... POTD! :first:

 

[Rimi]

Unless things of changed, I take it that you have not come to Christ for salvation. Is that correct, PureX?

In any case, as a Christian, I found it impossible to believe that God would ask us to do something that He Himself cannot do. Perhaps, in the long run, you are hoping that God will save you apart from repentance.


P.S.... I wouldn't count on it

Sozo, well said. God doesn't ask us to do things opposite what he does, and forgiving without forgiveness would be opposed to God.

Points for you.

 

[Turbo]

Thank you, Rimi.

 

[PureX]

:nono: Contrast this with the words of Christ:

[jesus]"Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."[/jesus] Matthew 18:15-17​

That is one of the reasons why Christ said to rebuke whoever sins against you (and to forgive them if they repent). That is one of the reasons why rebuke is loving:

"You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him." Leviticus 19:17​

You're just picking and choosing the quotes that you think support what you have already chosen to believe. People who enjoy "rebuking" other people only pay attention to the quotes that appear to them to justify their desire to rebuke others. And conversely, people who do not enjoy "rebuking" other people, and are made uncomfortable by it, tend to focuss only on the quotes that appear to support forgiveness across the board regardless of confrontation or repentance. I can't really tell anyone what's the "right" way according to God, or for them as individuals because we're all different, and our concept of and relationship with God is uniquely our own. Only in the end will we see through that glass clearly enough to know if we were "right" or "wrong". And maybe not even then.

 

[Turbo]

You're just picking and choosing the quotes that you think support what you have already chosen to believe. People who enjoy "rebuking" other people only pay attention to the quotes that appear to them to justify their desire to rebuke others. And conversely, people who do not enjoy "rebuking" other people, and are made uncomfortable by it, tend to focuss only on the quotes that appear to support forgiveness across the board regardless of confrontation or repentance.

God is not double-minded. Nowhere does God instruct people to forgive the unrepentant.

I can't really tell anyone what's the "right" way according to God,

Nice of you to confess this. :up:

or for them as individuals because we're all different, and our concept of and relationship with God is uniquely our own.

God is the same regardless of different people's misconceptions about Him.

Only in the end will we see through that glass clearly enough to know if we were "right" or "wrong". And maybe not even then.

Speak for yourself. Some of us don't base our worldview on love of ignorance.

 

[Rimi]

Purex, some of us can see God as He's presented Himself in Scriptures. And He said to rebuke. He does it Himself (Gomorrah, anybody?).

 

[Servo]

Automatic forgiveness...

We Christians are teaching unbelievers that they need not repent, they are forgiven anyway.

How many people are in Hell right now because of this awful teaching?

 

[PureX]

God is not double-minded. Nowhere does God instruct people to forgive the unrepentant.

Clearly, there are other Christians who see it differently.

God is the same regardless of different people's misconceptions about Him.

Probably so. But that doesn't change the fact that we are all conceptualizing God in our own unique way. Including you.

 

[PureX]

Automatic forgiveness...

We Christians are teaching unbelievers that they need not repent, they are forgiven anyway.

How many people are in Hell right now because of this awful teaching?

That's just it. You don't know, do you.

 

[Rimi]

That's right, Purex, some Christians disagree with us. We can't all be right. Let God decide. What does HE have to say.

 

[Servo]

That's just it. You don't know, do you.

Well you follow that sick teaching and you sure HAVEN'T repented...

 

[Poly]

Clearly, there are other Christians who see it differently.

:duh: So what?

Probably so. But that doesn't change the fact that we are all conceptualizing God in our own unique way. Including you.

Wrong. Some of us feel we owe God the respect to find out what he absolutely wants rather than what we want out of Him.

 

[Rimi]

That goes with something Bob Enyart said on his show, at least once: Don't do what you THINK is right. God hates that. Find out what IS right and then go and do that!"

I might also add, that we're not to do what we FEEL is right. Doing the right thing can be humbling, frightening, or against everything we thought we knew till that moment.

 

[PureX]

That goes with something Bob Enyart said on his show, at least once: Don't do what you THINK is right. God hates that. Find out what IS right and then go and do that!"

I might also add, that we're not to do what we FEEL is right. Doing the right thing can be humbling, frightening, or against everything we thought we knew till that moment.

Hmmm, so if this is what Bob Enyart thinks that God hates, than wouldn't God hate Bob Enyart thinking so?

So do you think Bob Enyart is right about this, or do you feel that Bob Enyart is right about this?

Do you think that your interpretation of scripture is the only correct interpretation, or do you feel that your interpretation of scripture is the only correct interpretation?

Do you think that because you've chosen to believe that something is true, that it must then be true, or do you feel that because you have chosen to believe that something is true, that it has to be true?

Can Bob Enyart know something without thinking it? Can you know the truth without feeling it to be true?

Seems to me that this whole line of reasoning is self-contradictory and irrational. How can Bob Enyart know something to be true without thinking it's true, and feeling that it's true? How can you know Bob Enyart is right without thinking that he's right and feeling that he's right?

It makes no sense.

 

[Poly]

That goes with something Bob Enyart said on his show, at least once: Don't do what you THINK is right. God hates that. Find out what IS right and then go and do that!"

I might also add, that we're not to do what we FEEL is right. Doing the right thing can be humbling, frightening, or against everything we thought we knew till that moment.

Good point, Rimi. Unfortunately today what many think is right is based too much what feels good or what is comfortable for them. A dangerous way to go.

 

[PureX]

Some of us feel we owe God the respect to find out what he absolutely wants rather than what we want out of Him.

Sure, so you looked in the bible and saw what you wanted to see there, and decided that what God absolutely wants is what you wanted God to want all along. What a surprise.

 

[Rimi]

Perhaps the emphasis was wrong. OK. So, don't do what YOU think is right. Find out what GOD says is right and then go and do that."

Clear enough for ya?

 

[Rimi]

Purex, some read the bible, see exactly what it says, don't like it and then say that's not what God meant. They'll skew all those verses that makes them uncomfortable by using the "God is Love" verse. But some a noble enough to see what's actually there, in context, and accept it for what it is, and trust God.

 

[beanieboy]

If you are Christian, and have received the Holy Spirit, and Christ is living in you, and you have become a new creation, your thoughts are not effected? Your heart is not changed? You don't have a conscience that guides you?

Or your conscious says to do one thing, and someone's interpretation of the bible says to do another, and so you listen to that person's interpretation?

You don't follow your heart?

 

[PureX]

Perhaps the emphasis was wrong. OK. So, don't do what YOU think is right. Find out what GOD says is right and then go and do that."

Clear enough for ya?

But how are you going to do that? It's YOU who thinks and feels that God wrote the bible. So when you go to the bible to see "what God really wants" you're still doing what YOU think and feel will clarify God's will.

There is no way for you or Bob Enyart or anyone else to escape the fact that what they believe to be true is based on their own thoughts and feelings about what is true.