There is nothing of the page I linked that remotely resembles what he posted and I didn't reference post #84 I referenced post #86. Neither of them looks like what he offered. This isn't about knowing anything about HTML. All he had to do was click the link and it will take him where he obviously doesn't want to go.
Forced Vaccination is Wrong
- Thread starter 1PeaceMaker
- Start date
There is nothing of the page I linked that remotely resembles what he posted and I didn't reference post #84 I referenced post #86. Neither of them looks like what he offered. This isn't about knowing anything about HTML. All he had to do was click the link and it will take him where he obviously doesn't want to go.
1PeaceMaker
New member
What is important is that this is a long term vaccine-strain infection. It's found in the brains of children.
That wild-type also settles in the brain doesn't exactly negate a point if that's so.
I didn't make any seriously incorrect statements. The facts are clear. The live viruses we are using are supposed to cause a long term settled in "positive" state in order to avoid symptomatic infections.
It's actually pretty retarded when you consider they don't even know what role the virus plays in the microbiome food chain of the body. It's possible that viruses are like wolves, seeking out abnormally fast dividing cells or cells with a nutritionally deficient environment. Such cells may be harbingers of cancer and may be only predated by such viruses.
I've repeatedly made the point that this is a human rights issue. I fleshed out that argument with you as best I could but rather than address those points, you are tinkering with side topics that are better dealt with on another thread.
My side gets to point out that the professionals in immunology don't have a consensus. Doctors don't have a consensus; even Dr Oz doesn't vaccinate his kids. Religious leaders and movements also object. There are mountains of objections - yet liberty is being threatened over a single Disneyland event that infected few and killed none?
1PeaceMaker
New member
Whoops, I said #84?
I dunno what he was thinking, but either way it weakens his credibility....
Here us what Frankie said:
Turns out, it was not this thread, it was a different tread he was refering to. He made a badly firmed reference so I went to post 86 in thus thread.
In any case, it doesn't detract from anything I have said nor dies it change what I said about you and others working hard to ignore the experiences of people who suffered for not being vaccinated.
Whoops, I said #84?
I dunno what he was thinking, but either way it weakens his credibility....
Turns out, it was not this thread, it was a different tread he was refering to. He made a badly firmed reference so I went to post 86 in thus thread.
In any case, it doesn't detract from anything I have said nor dies it change what I said about you and others working hard to ignore the experiences of people who suffered for not being vaccinated.
Tyrathca
New member
I don't think the article says what you think it does. Where in the article did it say they found vaccine-strain infection?
If that's so? That point was taken directly from the article you posted. The title even started "wild-type makes virus in begin tissue of children with...." so I'm doubting you have even read what you posted
What do you mean by "positive", these viruses are meant to cause a long term IgG response to the relevant antigens but I doubt that's what you mean.
And I've said that children have the right to be protected from their parents bad decisions.
A few fringe dwellers in the specialty does not invalidate a consensus.
And at the end of the day the interests of the children is what is important. Not pandering to the ideologies and ignorance of their parents.
1PeaceMaker
New member
I'm doubting you have even read what you posted
This is what happens when I have too many tabs open.
lain:Sorry.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10589903
The point being, here's an example of your measles positive. So benign. The fact that wild type measles also does this doesn't make it any better that the vaccine poses this risk.
But there is no consensus. This is not like arguing the world is round. This is like arguing that pasteurization is the path to healthy milk for children, not healthy cows and sanitary milk processing conditions. The long term consequences of mass vaccination with 50+ virus strains have yet to be properly analyzed.
You are talking about hundreds of public medical figures at odds with the consensus (one count was a list of 300), as well as thousands additionally who privately oppose vaccines.
And consider which side of the controversy the money of pharmaceutical companies falls on. We know these same companies are guilty of intentional and negligent contamination of products, such as in the case of Tylenol. They have no commercial interest in a moratorium on any type of vaccine, regardless of its risk to the population.
If that is the case, then we must protect the individual children at risk from vaccines, as well as those from different cultures. Destroying religions in the name of vaccines is also unacceptable. You can't just do away with one of the oldest mainstream religions in the name of controlling viruses you don't fully understand.
When it comes to DNA scientists are functionally illiterate, yet they propose to tamper with the forces of nature and push it on everybody around them, to boot. It's crass and careless, not to mention, inhumane.
Then I guess we should push to ban vaccines. You fanatics are abusing your children with poison in the name of your unrealistic, presumptuous medical idealism.
Whoops, I said #84?
I dunno what he was thinking, but either way it weakens his credibility....
He's dishonest and a hypocrite .... that is all that need be said about his credibility.
That you will have to back up. I am not dishonest nor am I a hypocrite. Support your aqusations from what I have said.
1PeaceMaker
New member
What concerns me is his lack of ability to recognize context, here. It was obvious by "context" you meant the thread link in your post. I got that and followed the link to the right location, despite my haste tripping me up about his wacky response.
Me... I gots my excuses why I didn't notice it was the wrong thread... at first...
I did notice they were both #86 ...(despite my typo) but didn't (obviously) notice the thread title difference, as I'm often having multiple interactions in my house at once while trying to post. :doh: I just thought I was looking at a different thread configuration, like can happen depending on which thread mode you use. As I recall that changes post numbers...Anyway, my corner cutting cost me this time. I could slow down myself sometimes....
1PeaceMaker
New member
Well start with what he said himself about anecdotes and compare that to your sensation piece.
Think about it... Your offered anecdotal article stands in contrast to your later advice to FZ.
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Do you deny that people who are not vaccinated can suffer from a disease that they could have been vaccinated to prevent? Do you deny that side effects from measles include nurilogical damage and death? Do yo you deny that I have said that vaccines are not perfect in there function and protection? Do you deny that I have said that vaccines are not without risk?
1PeaceMaker
New member
If you suffer vaccine strain measles, you may prevent wild-type, and later when that measles can help you fight cancer you've caused yourself a big problem.
As a side-effect of ill health and poor medical protocol. And same for vaccine strain. Exactly the same. Both types can settle in the brain and cause all kinds of damage.
I don't deny you said that at all. What I object to there is that you are actually supporting the pressure to use a vaccine which includes dangerous side effects that are the result of the measles going berserk in the body, just like a natural infection.
Remember Nori? She had a full blown infection of measles after vaccination and passed it on.
Are you encapable of providing a direct answer to a simple question.
Again, qualifying everything you say with your opinion. Please, link to the medical journeys that support your assertion.
I support vaccinations because they have been proven to work and they protect all of society, not just my family. You have never offered any explanation as to why society as a whole bennifits from your point of view.
Yes, it has long been known, and even stated in thus thread, the vaccination is not 100% effective at preventing infection.
1PeaceMaker
New member
You are asking if a vaccine infection prevents wild type infection. The answer is no, but the symptoms may be suppressed, which doesn't exactly equate to being effective.
You mean like the two links I already linked to with Ty, showing both types have been verified to settle in the brain?
"Proven to work" only means proven to provoke the immune system via alternate pathway than regular measles/other exposure.
You have no real proof that vaccines do anything more than that.
But you admit they don't "protect all of society" out the other side of your mouth when you say that vaccines are unavoidably risky.
That would be called exposing all society to the risk of vaccine side effects. Get it?
Letting families decide their vaccine schedules without undue pressure protects the most vulnerable of society which is good for society as a whole.
That's an understatement. Vaccines ensure viral infections of a patented nature.
elohiym
Well-known member
Yes. For example, you cannot be vaccinated against tetanus infection. That's not how the tetanus toxoid vaccine works. You are always susceptible to a tetanus infection whether you are vaccinated or not, and even if you survive a serious, near fatal tetanus infection, you do not acquire immunity to tetanus.
Yes. Explain how a measles virus kills its host, if you believe it does. Then provide us a chart that compares the risks of wild-type measles infection to the risks of vaccine-strain measles infection. Even if I attributted alleged measles deaths to the measles virus instead of pnuemonia or iatrogenic causes, the mortality rates were a fraction of a percent. More kids die riding bikes every year, and that's 100% preventable.
Those are mere equivocations. You deny that the MMR is an avoidably unsafe product, else you would oppose it as I do.
http://www.mercurynews.com/health/c...ccine-exemption-bill-faces-crucial-first-test
"Democratic led efforts?" I didn't realize this was a partisan issue.
"Democratic led efforts?" I didn't realize this was a partisan issue.
Considering that the decision was made LONG before this thread was started, nobody can claim they talked us out of it.
elohiym
Well-known member
Seems like it will be defeated in California, too.
nicely do e straw man but it does not answer the intended question.
okay, so you do not posses the minimum educational requirements to have an honest discussion about measles. Please come back after you study it and learn how the fever caused by measles can cause permanent brain damage.
I do not see MMR as an inherently dangerous product. Both daughters had it and both did fine.