Forced Vaccination is Wrong

[fzappa13]

You being concerned about a serious controversy and unwilling to subject your children ahead of alleviating or confirming your concerns is a "farce" - I guess.

Or maybe he's arguing that forced vaccination is good and right? :idunno:

Hard to tell. It seems like he is saying, "Your just wrong and I'll figure out why later ... so there"

 

[Tyrathca]

Are you arguing it's good to force-vaccinate people?

Children yes, adults only in extreme or specific situations (i.e. horrible pandemic).

Adults have a degree of freedom to make stupid decisions, even if those stupid decisions harm people and society around them (e.g. smoking). Mandating vaccinations on a routine population wide level would open a Pandora's box of questions of how far you could take it.

Children however are a different story. Children can not give informed consent (except some older ones, sometimes) therefore others are needed and in my opinion obligated to act in their best interests. Generally those people are their parents, who bear the majority of responsibility to them and also control over them. HOWEVER society (i.e. everyone else) also has a degree of responsibility to the child (in my opinion) and should also act in their best interests. Children are not property of their parents and there are limits to what they can decide for their child which is contrary to their best interests.
- I feel that vaccinations are an example of where society sometimes needs to step in. It is in the individual child's and in children in generals best interests to be vaccinated (as per vast scientific community consensus). While adults are free to make bad decisions about themselves they are not free to make unrestricted bad decisions about their children.

I'm sure you would agree, some people are at risk for vaccine complications of a serious nature.

Yes, and where this is suspected or known for valid medical reasons then they should be exempt from vaccinations.

Some people have mitochondrial defects which do not cause health complications without vaccines, but which may succumb to health complications, otherwise.

That is far from clear (I assume you are obliquely referring to the Hannah Poling case report)

For that very reason alone the population deserves a chance to decide for themselves, especially considering most adverse events are not reported and that's widely known and accepted as a fact. On this thread alone we have such cases, reportedly not sent to VAERS.

You keep claiming this thread is just about focing vaccines but it always seems to come back to claims by you and others about their lack of safety. That shows that it is a core part of the answer, even for you, regardless of whatever else you try to say.

Should a child (or their parent) be given the choice to allow them to cross a busy highway unaided or stay where they are? That they might be hit by a falling plane part (i.e. freak event) by standing where they were is not justification to allowing a parent to choose for them to cross a busy highway (clearly understood risk).

 

[Tyrathca]

School officials said of the 524 students at Monterey Park, 99.5 percent are vaccinated, including the four students who have been diagnosed.

What is your point?
1) Are you claiming that the 4 vaccinated kids who were infected is evidence against the vaccine working at all? - The answer to this is simple, it is well known and documented that vaccines have a minority percentage of failure rate. This can be due to insufficient immune response (either bad luck or simultaneous unrelated infection at the time of vaccination) or a failure of production/storage/administration. 4 out 524 is 0.76%, I'm not sure what the failure rate for the vaccine is but a high rate than that would not be surprising nor would it invalidate the usefullness of the vaccines.

2) Do you think that the high vaccination rate should have provided herd immunity to the students? If this is what you think then you fail to understand the common sources of pertussis infection in the modern era of vaccines is adults (who have lost immunity over time and in whom pertussis is an extremely mild infection). It is for this reason I allowed myself to be vaccinated by my employer (as an adult I legally can't be forced) due to (at the time) working regularly around the very young who couldn't yet be vaccinated. I had recieved the vaccination as a child but our knowledge of it shows that it can be generally assumed I had lost it by adulthood.

It would be nice if you didn't force me to guess your argument/point...

Over half of the 2,480 awards for vaccine injury and death totaling $2 billion dollars made under the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act involve pertussis vaccine.

And the point of this being.....? You didn't even cite the original data to look at why (your source provides what looks like a rather generic reference which unfortunately ends up as a broken link anyway)

The CDC reports that in the United States, cases of whooping cough have increased approximately 10-fold in the last twenty years [1], despite an increase in infant vaccination rates from 61% getting at least three doses of the pertussis vaccine in 1991 to 96.2% getting at least three doses in 2008

http://www.smartvax.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56&Itemid=43

What reasons do the CDC think are causing this and what reasons do YOU think are causing this?

I'm not seeing a clear argument for the danger of vaccines or why we shouldn't use them from argument? The source you gave implies the vaccine itself is the cause of increasing rates but does not make any meaningful attempt even to show this in the article which follows.



So are you going to make an argument now or vomit up an endless stream of random articles you think are suggestive vaccines are bad? I'm only going to play whack-a-mole for a so long. It would be nice to know at least that you understand what you are copying and pasting, because if you don't understand who on earth am I talking to with my rebuttals?

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Children yes, adults only in extreme or specific situations (i.e. horrible pandemic).

Then I have to say that society is backwards. This is like not cleaning up a filthy hospital full of MRSA and instead focusing on pushing more powerful antibiotics.

We lose a large portion of our children every year to needless school-related travel and other lives are lost at school due to gang related or other violence. Not to mention the many millions of dangerous viruses that easily spread in a large school, whether there's a vaccine for them or not.

Those children should be home educated (by the local public schools if necessary) because more children die from school related incidents than any pandemic ever stole in modern times.

Adults have a degree of freedom to make stupid decisions, even if those stupid decisions harm people and society around them (e.g. smoking). Mandating vaccinations on a routine population wide level would open a Pandora's box of questions of how far you could take it.

Actually you've already opened Pandora's Box when you suggest that children should be forced against their family's wishes. When you do that, you don't know what risks you are exposing the child to. They do not test the child for any known genetic risk factors, that's just one reason. For another, they do not do long term studies to see the effect these vaccines have on human fertility. And frankly, those risks are not for society to take. That is for the individual. And that means parents have a right to protect against these unknowns.

That is far from clear (I assume you are obliquely referring to the Hannah Poling case report)

So what you are saying is unless it's clear that harm is being done - parents have no right to protect their children? I think you have it backwards.

I think you are wrong that it's only one case report. Shame on those who made you think so. It must have been greed that moved them to lie.

.... and what do you know.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/new-study---mitochondrial_b_147030.html?

The widespread misconception that Hannah's case was "unique," and without any bearing on other autism cases, was promulgated by opinion leaders such as CDC Director Julie Gerberding and the newly rich vaccine inventor Dr. Paul Offit, (who told Newsweek that his share of the royalties from the vaccine was "like winning the lottery.")

....

But on Wednesday, a new chart-review study was published showing that "mitochondrial autism" is not rare at all.

"These and prior data suggest a disturbance of mitochondrial energy production as an underlying pathophysiological mechanism in a subset of individuals with autism," wrote the authors of the study, "Mitochondrial Disease in Autism Spectrum Disorder Patients: A Cohort Analysis." http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003815

You keep claiming this thread is just about focing vaccines but it always seems to come back to claims by you and others about their lack of safety. That shows that it is a core part of the answer, even for you, regardless of whatever else you try to say.

So what you are saying is that members of major religions such as Orthodox Jews can have their conscience trampled in the name of science because many people use science to defend their conscience? You have missed a major part of the argument.

You also miss the right of parents to protect their children from harm. The conscience of parents who fear harming their child while meddling with the forces of nature is just as legitimate as the fears of Orthodox Jews concerning defilement.

Should a child (or their parent) be given the choice to allow them to cross a busy highway unaided or stay where they are? That they might be hit by a falling plane part (i.e. freak event) by standing where they were is not justification to allowing a parent to choose for them to cross a busy highway (clearly understood risk).

In America, the right to freely travel is considered fundamental. That's why parents feel justified risking their children's lives to send them to school, where if they didn't first get hit by a car they can go on to be shot, stabbed or infected with one of millions of potentially deadly viruses. And their kids can go on exposing themselves to risks like that by traveling all over town after school.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Hard to tell. It seems like he is saying, "Your just wrong and I'll figure out why later ... so there"

He's trying to say that unless you can prove that harm is being done that society can forcibly vaccinate our children. It matters not if you object to taking risks they have not ruled out through epidemiological or other studies.

But I guess it's okay to make our children living test subjects because everybody is doing it.

:doh:

:help:

 

[fzappa13]

Today, 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fzappa13
School officials said of the 524 students at Monterey Park, 99.5 percent are vaccinated, including the four students who have been diagnosed.
What is your point?
1) Are you claiming that the 4 vaccinated kids who were infected is evidence against the vaccine working at all?

So it would appear ... at least for them. Do they matter to you?

The answer to this is simple

No, you're responses are simple … the answer, however, is likely not.

it is well known and documented that vaccines have a minority percentage of failure rate.

Okay, where is your documentation and what do you mean by “minority failure rate”? More people don't get the disease than do after receiving the vaccine? Great.

This can be due to insufficient immune response (either bad luck or simultaneous unrelated infection at the time of vaccination) or a failure of production/storage/administration. 4 out 524 is 0.76%, I'm not sure what the failure rate for the vaccine is but a high rate than that would not be surprising nor would it invalidate the usefullness of the vaccines.

You're not sure what the failure rate is but here you are pontificating about it … great. Please, do go on.

2) Do you think that the high vaccination rate should have provided herd immunity to the students?

Well, that's the popular theory but it's evidently not working out so good, is it?

If this is what you think then you fail to understand the common sources of pertussis infection in the modern era of vaccines is adults (who have lost immunity over time and in whom pertussis is an extremely mild infection).

The article was about school children.

It is for this reason I allowed myself to be vaccinated by my employer (as an adult I legally can't be forced) due to (at the time) working regularly around the very young who couldn't yet be vaccinated. I had recieved the vaccination as a child but our knowledge of it shows that it can be generally assumed I had lost it by adulthood.

Okay, now we're getting down to it a little … you got stuck by your employer. Nice. Did you get to keep your job if you refused?

It would be nice if you didn't force me to guess your argument/point...

Aw, come on … can't a guy have a little fun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fzappa13
Over half of the 2,480 awards for vaccine injury and death totaling $2 billion dollars made under the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act involve pertussis vaccine.
And the point of this being.....? You didn't even cite the original data to look at why (your source provides what looks like a rather generic reference which unfortunately ends up as a broken link anyway)

Um, let's see … National Vaccine Injury Act? Ya think just maybe there is a little problem somewhere that gave birth to this?

The CDC reports that in the United States, cases of whooping cough have increased approximately 10-fold in the last twenty years [1], despite an increase in infant vaccination rates from 61% getting at least three doses of the pertussis vaccine in 1991 to 96.2% getting at least three doses in 2008

http://www.smartvax.com/index.php?op...d=56&Itemid=43
What reasons do the CDC think are causing this and what reasons do YOU think are causing this?

I'm ready to let the facts speak for themselves … how about you?

I'm not seeing a clear argument for the danger of vaccines or why we shouldn't use them from argument?

Myopia is seldom pretty except that it does ease the burden on the eyes as it concerns that which would otherwise be unsightly.

The source you gave implies the vaccine itself is the cause of increasing rates but does not make any meaningful attempt even to show this in the article which follows.

The fact that you inferred this conclusion without prodding would seem to argue for the veracity of said conclusion.

So are you going to make an argument now or vomit up an endless stream of random articles you think are suggestive vaccines are bad? I'm only going to play whack-a-mole for a so long. It would be nice to know at least that you understand what you are copying and pasting, because if you don't understand who on earth am I talking to with my rebuttals?

Okay, big picture time. All other niggling over posting minutia aside, your online monicker makes it evident your are familiar with the works of the fiction writer Peter F. Hamilton. In his “Night's Dawn” trilogy he envisions a race (Tyrathca) with a cast system that has only the breeders being fully sentient. I would suggest to you that, if you had followed the other threads concerning vaccination, you would already have in hand the information necessary to know that Mr. Gates and his friends envision something similar and are busy lacing vaccines with sterilizing agents so as to ensure that he and his fellow eugenicists become this breeding cast whilst robing others of this God given right.

Why you would embrace such efforts is beyond me but I think your religious affiliation may well speak to the matter better than I. That said I can only hope that somewhere along the line your concern for your fellow man will overcome your inclination to embrace philosophies that continue to diminish the value of human life in the name of creating a “shambala” for the chosen few.

Whether you see it or not, that is what you are doing.

 

[fzappa13]

...

 

[Tyrathca]

The article was about school children.

It is hard to have a discussion with someone who can't even fill in the the obvious - adults and school children regularly interact (you see there are these strange beings called "teachers" and "parents"...)

Try this line of reasoning - a common source of pertussis is adults, children encounter adults a lot, ergo kids are still often exposed to pertussis regardless of many other factors (such as the herd immunity of the school children cohort)

Okay, now we're getting down to it a little … you got stuck by your employer. Nice. Did you get to keep your job if you refused?

Yes. I'm pretty sure there would be some legal complications if they tried to force adults without extreme reasons.

The fact that you inferred this conclusion without prodding would seem to argue for the veracity of said conclusion.

So your going to make a statement, cite a useless link as evidence and I'm meant to fill in ALL the blanks for you? Apart from that being a stupid thing to expect, why would I bother? I neither have the confidence in your claims to think they are worth the investment in time, I lack other motivation (it doesn't sound all that fun make your argument for you) and I have much better things to do and learn about.

Okay, big picture time. All other niggling over posting minutia aside, your online monicker makes it evident your are familiar with the works of the fiction writer Peter F. Hamilton. In his “Night's Dawn” trilogy he envisions a race (Tyrathca) with a cast system that has only the breeders being fully sentient.

Lol, don't read too much into my choice of name. I often choose names out of books based on how they sound in my head, I happened to be reading that series at the time I joined this forum and was trying to choose a unique name. I didn't choose them due to any similarities in philosophy or anything (they would be one of the last choices from that series if that were the case)

(By the way if you like space opera sci-fi Peter Hamilton has some really good series to read. Night's Dawn Trilogy is my favourite but I'm also a fan of his Commonwealth Saga)

I would suggest to you that, if you had followed the other threads concerning vaccination, you would already have in hand the information necessary to know that Mr. Gates and his friends envision something similar and are busy lacing vaccines with sterilizing agents so as to ensure that he and his fellow eugenicists become this breeding cast whilst robing others of this God given right.

I have heard a similar claim in the media but from imams in Pakistan and other regions claiming the US government/CIA is doing it to via the polio vaccine (and associated with this there have been resurgences of polio cases).

Sure I wouldn't be surprised that someone would want to do this, lots of people with crazy ideas out there. But considering that this is ACTUALLY happening I find that a bit far fetched. The tin foil hat is strong in you...

Why you would embrace such efforts is beyond me but I think your religious affiliation may well speak to the matter better than I.

Embrace what efforts?

Trying to wipe out diseases where possible and preventing their routine transmission where not through evidence based vaccine programs? Sure I fully embrace that and I'm not sure what my "religious affiliation" has to do with it.

Eugenics via mass sterilisation? No I do not support that and I'm wondering if your implying atheists are generally social darwinist psychopaths.

That said I can only hope that somewhere along the line your concern for your fellow man will overcome your inclination to embrace philosophies that continue to diminish the value of human life in the name of creating a “shambala” for the chosen few.

What with the what now?!?!?!? :dizzy:

Whether you see it or not, that is what you are doing.

*speaks into radio* he's onto us, send the black helicopters! Code zigzagoon! Code zigzagoon! *Pffsshhht*

How did you find out about our evil atheist conspiracy? :bowser:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Hey, FZ, I just wanted to talk to you a bit this am, too. Especially since Ty didn't get around to me yet. (a lot remains unanswered.)

Okay, now we're getting down to it a little … you got stuck by your employer. Nice. Did you get to keep your job if you refused?

Human nature dictates that he justifies his choice however best he can since he did it already. Social engineers use this humanity against us.

Okay, big picture time. All other niggling over posting minutia aside, your online monicker makes it evident your are familiar with the works of the fiction writer Peter F. Hamilton. In his “Night's Dawn” trilogy he envisions a race (Tyrathca) with a cast system that has only the breeders being fully sentient.

I didn't know anything about this fiction! :doh: Time to hit the reading corner. Thanks!

I would suggest to you that, if you had followed the other threads concerning vaccination, you would already have in hand the information necessary to know that Mr. Gates and his friends envision something similar and are busy lacing vaccines with sterilizing agents so as to ensure that he and his fellow eugenicists become this breeding cast whilst robing others of this God given right.

Wait, doesn't all those billions make him saintly? Did you know he donated billions to Pakistan to help force the children there to be vaccinated while they mass arrested their parents? Imagine that. Just donating ALL the money the government of Pakistan needs. Why didn't the Pakistani people take care of it themselves? I guess they just needed a big white angel from money-heaven. What's the reason Pakistan is so bad off they don't want to fund it themselves via normal routes? Won't a benevolent bank make a generous loan?

Why you would embrace such efforts is beyond me but I think your religious affiliation may well speak to the matter better than I. That said I can only hope that somewhere along the line your concern for your fellow man will overcome your inclination to embrace philosophies that continue to diminish the value of human life in the name of creating a “shambala” for the chosen few.

Whether you see it or not, that is what you are doing.

He doesn't appear to think our fear for our children's health is legitimate. He thinks he can participate in this threat to the safety and security of our children as though that won't light a keg of backlash that will blow his socks off. Self defense is an inalienable right. To think that parents cannot resist vaccination is to think the unthinkable. No parent should be forced to trust strangers with the power to abuse them by sticking questionable substances in their babies in the name of the State.

Ty knows Tylenol was poisoned with heavy metals knowingly for over a year, rather than spend the money to clean up their acts. All it takes is a similar scandal with vaccines and the damage will be irreversible for millions of children.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

It is hard to have a discussion with someone who can't even fill in the the obvious - adults and school children regularly interact (you see there are these strange beings called "teachers" and "parents"...)

"This first detailed analysis of a recent North American pertussis outbreak found widespread disease among fully vaccinated older children. Starting approximately three years after prior vaccine dose, attack rates markedly increased, suggesting inadequate protection or durability from the acellular vaccine."

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Vax Forcer Troups Massing for Battle

Vax Forcer Troups Massing for Battle

To All Lovers of Medical Liberty and Informed Consent; this is an important news bulletin!

This is a public attempt to gather support for forcing mass vaccination programs in America. Only time will tell whether it's a vain attempt, but we should reach out to as many House members as we can and try to sway them. Maybe some of us could write them and see if there's anything that we could say to help them decide their vote?


http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-acti...kers-sign-onto-vaccines-save-lives-resolution

A group of bipartisan House members has introduced a resolution recognizing the value of vaccinating children against contagious diseases.

More than 90 lawmakers of both parties have endorsed the resolution, which was introduced by Reps. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), Charlie Dent (R-Pa.), Thomas Marino (R-Pa.) and Peter Welch (D-Vt.).

The resolution comes in light of the recent measles outbreak at Disneyland due to some parents opting not to vaccinate their kids. Since then, some 2016 GOP presidential contenders like New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) have incited controversy by suggesting that parents shouldn't be forced to vaccinate their children against illnesses like measles, mumps or rubella.
"With the latest measles outbreak in California and elsewhere, it’s more important than ever that children are vaccinated to prevent the spread of preventable and dangerous diseases — including those that were previously eradicated," Schiff said in a statement.

"It is unconscionable that children are being put at risk because of decisions based on faulty information and untruths," Dent added.

The resolution would state that it is the view of the House that vaccines "save lives and are essential to maintain the public health, economic and national security of the people of the United States."

In addition, the resolution "urges parents, in consultation with their health care provider, to follow the scientific evidence and consensus of medical experts in favor of timely vaccinations to protect their children and their community."

 

[fzappa13]

Hey, FZ, I just wanted to talk to you a bit this am, too. Especially since Ty didn't get around to me yet. (a lot remains unanswered.)



Human nature dictates that he justifies his choice however best he can since he did it already. Social engineers use this humanity against us.

As a species, we do appear to be more inclined to justify a mistake than to admit one.

I didn't know anything about this fiction! :doh: Time to hit the reading corner. Thanks!

SiFi has long been a vehicle for acclimating us to that which our would be societal programers would have us embrace through the time worn tool of gradualism. I was once hooked on the stuff but, after reading the Bible, saw no further point in that pursuit.

Wait, doesn't all those billions make him saintly? Did you know he donated billions to Pakistan to help force the children there to be vaccinated while they mass arrested their parents? Imagine that. Just donating ALL the money the government of Pakistan needs. Why didn't the Pakistani people take care of it themselves? I guess they just needed a big white angel from money-heaven. What's the reason Pakistan is so bad off they don't want to fund it themselves via normal routes? Won't a benevolent bank make a generous loan?

What concerns me more is that Bill has done what he has done and remains unprosecuted to this point. Kinda makes one concerned about the motives of those offering themselves up as our global care takers (The UN, WHO et al.)

He doesn't appear to think our fear for our children's health is legitimate. He thinks he can participate in this threat to the safety and security of our children as though that won't light a keg of backlash that will blow his socks off. Self defense is an inalienable right. To think that parents cannot resist vaccination is to think the unthinkable. No parent should be forced to trust strangers with the power to abuse them by sticking questionable substances in their babies in the name of the State.

As I suggested earlier, gradualism has seen us as a society tolerate and even embrace that which was unthinkable two or three decades ago. I would offer TV fair as one example. Our collective beliefs as it concerns vaccines have received similar attention from those who have paid to own the media whose offerings most of us have come to blindly receive without question.

 

[fzappa13]

So your going to make a statement, cite a useless link as evidence and I'm meant to fill in ALL the blanks for you? Apart from that being a stupid thing to expect, why would I bother? I neither have the confidence in your claims to think they are worth the investment in time, I lack other motivation (it doesn't sound all that fun make your argument for you) and I have much better things to do and learn about.

Then I guess we can expect an end to your unsubstantiated blather, belittling and subject dodging on this thread.

:wave2:

 

[Lon]

Try this line of reasoning - a common source of pertussis is adults, children encounter adults a lot, ergo kids are still often exposed to pertussis regardless of many other factors (such as the herd immunity of the school children cohort)
:bowser:

Yeah, but I still don't see this as a reason to not take a vacation. Vacations have to remain forced, because the teachers need a break as well. I still don't get this thread. What is wrong with forced vacation? Go. Have fun. But if you are going to be around a lot of people, you might want to get your shots. :up: Well, maybe not all of them. Some of them produce more resistant strains, or is that just antibiotics?

At any rate, take your vacation and enjoy it, forced or not. /thread?

-Lon

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Yeah, but I still don't see this as a reason to not take a vacation.

Thank you for saying it!

Maybe some people really DO need a forced vacation. A vacation from the delusion that all corporations are sanctioned by the sanctimonious institution of government because they serve only the good of The People.

Vacations have to remain forced, because the teachers need a break as well.

Whoa, all you need is diagnostic infrared cameras installed at the school entrances, like TX did. Then you can send home sick kids before they start coughing and sneezing all over the other students.

I still don't get this thread.

Try, really, really hard, to stay on topic. I think you might learn something.

What is wrong with forced vacation?

See the seventh-day commandment. Since it's not a forced medical procedure, have at it. Make a law if you want. I won't stop you. Just don't dishonor God by disrespecting His children.

....if you are going to be around a lot of people, you might want to get your shots. :up: Well, maybe not all of them. Some of them produce more resistant strains, or is that just antibiotics?

*might want* depends on a lot of things. Like... do you know as much as God? Have you read your genome lately? Counted your cellular mitochondria?

At any rate, take your vacation and enjoy it, forced or not. /thread?

Sorry Lon, you and friends will continue to see it in the actives page until it's time to let it rest. Which is not up to you or me, but God.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Then I guess we can expect an end to your unsubstantiated blather, belittling and subject dodging on this thread.

:wave2:

You know it's not going to be that easy...

 

[fzappa13]

Yeah, but I still don't see this as a reason to not take a vacation. Vacations have to remain forced, because the teachers need a break as well. I still don't get this thread. What is wrong with forced vacation? Go. Have fun. But if you are going to be around a lot of people, you might want to get your shots. :up: Well, maybe not all of them. Some of them produce more resistant strains, or is that just antibiotics?

At any rate, take your vacation and enjoy it, forced or not. /thread?

-Lon

You are having way too much fun ...:banana:

 

[fzappa13]

You know it's not going to be that easy...

I dunno ... haven't seen Barbie in a while.

 

[Lon]

You are having way too much fun ...:banana:

Shameless distraction. My glasses were blurry and I first read 'forced vacation,' then ran with it anyway. I have always had to have forced vaccinations in schools. I have Christian MD's so ask them often about these vaccinations. They repeatedly tell me "I'm having them myself, for me and my family. They do protect and are preferred to the greater risk. When it comes to medicine, my doctor really is smarter than I."

 

[fzappa13]

Shameless distraction. My glasses were blurry and I first read 'forced vacation,' then ran with it anyway. I have always had to have forced vaccinations in schools. I have Christian MD's so ask them often about these vaccinations. They repeatedly tell me "I'm having them myself, for me and my family. They do protect and are preferred to the greater risk. When it comes to medicine, my doctor really is smarter than I."

I know a "christian" preacher in my little town that weekly assures known thieves in his flock of the pleasant nature of their long home. Beware.