Forced Vaccination is Wrong

[1PeaceMaker]

I have always had to have forced vaccinations in schools.

I know they abuse human rights in school, but you've always had a choice and the option to opt-out. But Ca. wants to force ALL children to vax, homeschooled, too. REALLY forcing, for the first time, ever.

I have Christian MD's so ask them often about these vaccinations.

Do they willfully sin? "Christians" might do right or wrong.

They repeatedly tell me "I'm having them myself, for me and my family.

Dr. Oz doesn't vax his 4 kids.

They do protect

They are an infection, actually. Just like HIV you stay positive - if it "worked." If they are "effective." We haven't studied enough to know the consequences of this idea.

and are preferred to the greater risk. When it comes to medicine, my doctor really is smarter than I."

So, might as well dole out your trust, eh? It's easier than thinking or self-education and you get to pass the buck when you get hurt. :thumb:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I dunno ... haven't seen Barbie in a while.

Point well made. :chuckle:

 

[CabinetMaker]

Measles was no big deal until...

I found this to be an interesting read.

 

[fzappa13]

Measles was no big deal until...

I found this to be an interesting read.

Now try this ...

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/disney-measles-outbreak-mousetrap-ignorance

 

[CabinetMaker]

Now try this ...

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/disney-measles-outbreak-mousetrap-ignorance

It has long benn known that immunizations are not 100% effective. Immunized people get sick. Your article is lacking in usable statistics so it is useful as nothing other than anti vaccination propaganda.

 

[fzappa13]

It has long benn known that immunizations are not 100% effective. Immunized people get sick. Your article is lacking in usable statistics so it is useful as nothing other than anti vaccination propaganda.

:darwinsm:

... said the guy who just offered up an anecdotal article without the first footnote or statistic.

 

[CabinetMaker]

:darwinsm:

... said the guy who just offered up an anecdotal article without the first footnote or statistic.

I offered an article about a single persons experience without vaccines. I offered another article about a different persons experience with their unvaccinated child. I never averted my articles as anything other than people's experiences and how the disease effects them. Frank tried to bring in an article showing that vaccines are failing. I pointed out his article didn't prove his point.

What is interesting is how you and Elo and Frank try so hard to discredit people's experiences.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

It has long benn known that immunizations are not 100% effective. Immunized people get sick.

Atypical measles from vax failure is more dangerous.

Besides, this little girl in the story was ill, but there's indications her health could have been compromised. It was winter. Her skin was dark, meaning she was at risk of vitamin D compromise from lack of sun hours. Life was in a flux (stress) and the chances are very good that vitamin A was compromised, as her daughter's feverish eyes indicated. Viruses use up even more vit A - so winter/winter colds mean one must eat many leafy greens or take cod liver oil.

I don't think she had to end up in a hospital, but what parent is going to think of an enema to rehydrate? Seems more humane than an IV and dangerous hospitalization, but it also requires ideas doctors won't widely promote.

 

[fzappa13]

I offered an article about a single persons experience without vaccines. I offered another article about a different persons experience with their unvaccinated child. I never averted my articles as anything other than people's experiences and how the disease effects them. Frank tried to bring in an article showing that vaccines are failing. I pointed out his article didn't prove his point.

What is interesting is how you and Elo and Frank try so hard to discredit people's experiences.

mmmmmmmm ... no ... you're the one who discredited your own article by suggesting mine was propaganda because it had no sites or stats ... which by the way it did. Yours did not. The glasses you are wearing leave you blind to your own hypocrisy. Such is all too often the human condition.

Would that there were a vaccination for that.


Pop quiz ... who did Jesus save His most scathing rebukes for whilst on this earth?

 

[fzappa13]

I offered an article about a single persons experience without vaccines. I offered another article about a different persons experience with their unvaccinated child. I never averted my articles as anything other than people's experiences and how the disease effects them. Frank tried to bring in an article showing that vaccines are failing. I pointed out his article didn't prove his point.

What is interesting is how you and Elo and Frank try so hard to discredit people's experiences.

You need to have a look at this thread and bring your favorite seasoning because you're going to have to eat your words ... if not earlier then surely when you get to post #86.

Bon Appetit ... :chew:


http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108154&page=6

 

[CabinetMaker]

From NVIC website:

PHILOSOPHICAL, CONSCIENTIOUS OR PERSONAL BELIEF EXEMPTION

The following 17 states allow an exemption to vaccination based on philosophical, personal or conscientiously held beliefs:

•Arizona
•Arkansas
•California
•Colorado
•Idaho
•Louisiana
•Maine
•Michigan
•Minnesota
•North Dakota
•Ohio
•Oklahoma
•Texas
•Utah
•Vermont
•Washington
•Wisconsin

You need to have a look at this thread and bring your favorite seasoning because you're going to have to eat your words ... if not earlier then surely when you get to post #86.

Bon Appetit ... :chew:


http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108154&page=6

I don't think that post means what you think it means.

 

[fzappa13]

I don't think that post means what you think it means.

Either you are being deliberately deceptive or you are delusional to the point of needing supervision. Click the link I offered and read post # 86 and you will read this penned by me:

With my newly acquired powers I now offer this graphic. There are many more like this. They stand in stark contrast to those offered that indicate that vaccines are not only innocuous but beneficial. I think the old admonition about statistics applies here and elsewhere and that's why I'm greatly interested in personal stories and skeptical of stats. Stats are, as often as not, compiled by folks paid by folks who have their own agenda be they pro or anti vaccine or any other concern.

Said another way, all these cute graphs suggest possible correlations that can't be confirmed by statistical analysis alone. Statistics suggest possibilities but they do not constitute proof of anything to anyone other than those predisposed to believe both their veracity and hypothetical conclusions. That is why I am much more interested in the personal experiences of others rather than the statistical offerings of those whose motives are, at best, questionable.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Either you are being deliberately deceptive or you are delusional to the point of needing supervision. Click the link I offered and read post # 86 and you will read this penned by me:

That's not post 86, I linked to post 86. Click on the link and see for yourself.

In reading what you posted, there is nothing there would cause me to change anything I have said. You press your agenda regardless.

 

[Tyrathca]

"This first detailed analysis of a recent North American pertussis outbreak found widespread disease among fully vaccinated older children. Starting approximately three years after prior vaccine dose, attack rates markedly increased, suggesting inadequate protection or durability from the acellular vaccine."

It would be nice if you could link to what you are quoting, yes I can often find it myself but it's polite to source your material. Anyway HERE is the original article you are referring to.

I'm not sure what your point is with this anyway, the article you quoted showed that the current regime of vaccines does not adequately cover the ages of 8-12 years old It did not suggest that the vaccine itself did not work. On the contrary it suggested that an earlier booster may help improve it due to faster weaning of immunisation than expected.

To reinforce my comment to fzappa about adult reservoirs which you were quoting:
"The incidence [of pertussis] in the United States has been estimated to be between 800,000 and 3.3 million cases per year. The primary
reason for these large numbers is believed to be a persistent reservoir of disease in adolescents and adults, which the revised CDC vaccine schedule sought to address." (taken from the same article)

Yes the vaccine isn't perfect but rather than fix the vaccination schedule you think this study suggests we should throw the baby out with the bathwater and stop vaccinations all together?

 

[Tyrathca]

They are an infection, actually. Just like HIV you stay positive - if it "worked." If they are "effective." We haven't studied enough to know the consequences of this idea.

No, this is just wrong.

Vaccines are not an infection, some vaccines are (e.g. attenuated virus) but many involve no infection at all and simply exposure to antigens.

These infections are nothing like HIV, you don't just "stay positive". Specifically the attenuated viruses in vaccines don't hide and form a reservoir for future re-infection in the event of immune or pharmacological attempts at clearance. Ergo attenuated virus vaccines do not persist chronically after administration (well if we used attenuated HIV virus it apparently would, but that's a different story and why we don't try that)

 

[fzappa13]

That's not post 86, I linked to post 86. Click on the link and see for yourself.

In reading what you posted, there is nothing there would cause me to change anything I have said. You press your agenda regardless.

No, you copied my link which goes where I said it did.



Is there anyone else here who would try this link and verify what either of us has said?


http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108154&page=6

 

[1PeaceMaker]

No, this is just wrong.

Then why do they find vaccines strains in brains?

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/9/10/03-0180_article

Vaccines are not an infection,

Vaccines can be an infection. You go on to say so.

some vaccines are (e.g. attenuated virus) but many involve no infection at all and simply exposure to antigens.

And we all know that, too, see the Salk/Sabin history. But our pet "whole virus" vaccines, such as measles, are live.

These infections are nothing like HIV

When you're positive, you're positive.

Try and obfuscate all you like, but those who are positive have to be fighting a low level infection, just like those with HIV. (regardless of whether the HIV is low-level or not, it is nonetheless a "positive" experience like measles vaccines.) lain:

ALSO you are ignoring the key points I made earlier.

Stay on topic, my friend. :e4e:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

No, you copied my link which goes where I said it did.



Is there anyone else here who would try this link and verify what either of us has said?


http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108154&page=6

I did it. I see what is going on. I think we have an older person not understanding HTML or something. I mean, your link was right, but his link was also showing a #84 --- he just got there the wrong way.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

It would be nice if you could link to what you are quoting

But I have to run sometimes before I can do that. Whether I'm saving a lunch-dish or a baby on a bunk bed, or a tot with a poop in his hand. You know? I think you can give me a pass on that one. Pretty please.

I'm not sure what your point is

The vaccines are not effective. They present an unreasonable burden and risk for a low payout. The more shots you get the more cumulative risk you face.

Yes the vaccine isn't perfect

Some of us prefer to watch you use the inferior, risky vaccines while they are immature technology than join in. It's our right.

but rather than fix the vaccination schedule you think this study suggests....

They suggest what pharma and their careers motivate them to. It's commercial science at its finest.

 

[Tyrathca]

Then why do they find vaccines strains in brains?

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/9/10/03-0180_article

I don't think this study says what you think it does. Could you point out what you think is important?

Try and obfuscate all you like, but those who are positive have to be fighting a low level infection, just like those with HIV. (regardless of whether the HIV is low-level or not, it is nonetheless a "positive" experience like measles vaccines.) lain:

What exactly do you mean by "positive" and in what context?

The example of wild-type virus in brain tissue I'll give you is somewhat analogous... but not what you were referring to

ALSO you are ignoring the key points I made earlier.

Stay on topic, my friend. :e4e:

I'm only off topic because you are raising incorrect statements about vaccines in order to make your crusade against vaccines. A lot of things have been said too (not just by you) and I'm trying to keep responses to a manageable size and number. If there is a major thing I have missed feel free to repeat it or refer back to it (I'm not going to respond to everything you've said)