Forced Vaccination is Wrong

[CabinetMaker]

Cabinetmaker,

Is that what your doctor told you before you allowed your child to be vaccinated with hepatitis B? Were you aware? Yes? No?

Why should my child have to get a hepatitis B vaccination to attend public school? If you can't justify it, then perhaps you ought to stop defending the wrong side of the argument.

Hepatitis is not a routine vaccination. Generally it is only given if there was a potential exposuer. Since we have not had any exposure risks we have no need to be vaccinated so we have never discussed it with a doctor.

 

[elohiym]

No, it's not hypocrisy.

I do recall Granite saying he sometimes doesn't get the flu shot because he forgets or is too lazy. He used the word lazy.

Would I like to stay home and away from others when sick? Yes, of course I would. However, my boss doesn't appreciate it, in fact I could lose my job if I missed too much work due to illness. Also, I don't get any sick pay, any work I miss is money I'm losing out on.

So it's about money, not about protecting children?

There is also a difference between coming down with a virus or illness that there isn't a vaccine for vs. one that there is.

There is also a difference between vaccines for highly contagious diseases and those only contagious through intimate contact or not contagious at all.

It's not a crime to be sick, however if you are sick with an illness there is a vaccine for and knowingly put others at risk, I would say it's a grey area.

When you vaccinate a child, you knowingly put that child at risk for the side-effects of the vaccine.

 

[elohiym]

Hepatitis is not a routine vaccination.

Hepatitis B is a routine vaccination, mandated along with hepatitis A by the public schools in my state.

Babies are given three doses of hep B vaccine before 16 months of age. See the CDC vaccine schedule.

Generally it is only given if there was a potential exposuer. Since we have not had any exposure risks we have no need to be vaccinated so we have never discussed it with a doctor.

Please get educated. Your ignorance is part of the problem.

 

[Jose Fly]

Meanwhile, the non-vaccinated children with medical exemptions and a percentage of vaccine failures are left to infect the school; but don't let that stop you from dreaming.

Apparently you can't comprehend the difference between someone who deliberately chooses to not vaccinate their kids, and someone who can't for medical reasons.

 

[elohiym]

Apparently you can't comprehend the difference between someone who deliberately chooses to not vaccinate their kids, and someone who can't for medical reasons.

Apparently you can't comprehend that has nothing to do with my point.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

No, it's not hypocrisy. Would I like to stay home and away from others when sick? Yes, of course I would. However, my boss doesn't appreciate it, in fact I could lose my job if I missed too much work due to illness.

As long as you make money exposing others?

if you are sick with an illness there is a vaccine for and knowingly put others at risk, I would say it's a grey area.

This is hypocrisy. You can knowingly expose your community because they didn't invent a vaccine for your particular sniffles and not call it a crime, even though you could do something about exposing others that does not involve a vaccine.

Now, do you suppose that God will wink at this while you force others to have a vaccination regardless of their concerns or convictions? Just because you need some extra money?

 

[Jose Fly]

Apparently you can't comprehend that has nothing to do with my point.

Then what is your point?

 

[Rusha]

I don't agree with mandatory vaccination. However, I also don't believe that if you don't vaccinate your child, you should be immune (see what I did there) from the consequences of your decision.

For example, if you choose not to vaccinate your child, then your child cannot attend public school. You must go find a private school that will accept unvaccinated kids.

:thumb: That's a start ... though it would also be hard to find a private school that would not mandate their students be vaccinated.

 

[CabinetMaker]

That's not the point.

That is exactly Elo's point. He makes it over and over again.

Do you think it's immoral, yes or no?

No. Be caused forced isolation is moral.

 

[Jose Fly]

:thumb: That's a start ... though it would also be hard to find a private school that would not mandate their students be vaccinated.

Yep, that may be difficult. Also, I'd imagine if the school advertised itself as "vaccine optional", the prospect of classrooms full of unvaccinated kids would turn a lot of parents away, maybe even to the point where they wouldn't have enough students to stay open.

 

[Jose Fly]

To be consistent, the pro-vaxxers would have to admit that there should be no loophole for parents to decline them.

Of course there can be exemptions. Kids on chemo for example can't get certain vaccines, or kids born without spleens.

So, in other words, forced vaxxing if you want to bring your child in public.

Is this what the pro-vaxx crowd is saying?

No, but if you bring your unvaccinated kid into public, you are deliberately and knowingly putting kids like the above at risk, and should be held accountable for your decision.

Can't have it both ways.

 

[Aimiel]

Sheldon Cooper didn't like it, but I think I'd like a forced vacation. :thumb:

 

[CabinetMaker]

You think it matters whether it routinely mutates or mutates occasionally?

You bet it does. If it mutates at a rate of 1 in a 100, that's one thing. If it mutates at a rate of 1 in a 1,000,000,000, that's something else entirely.

If a doctor told them it is possible, and it is, they would have a compelling reason to believe it's possible. If they had studied the question prior to consenting to the infection with a vaccine-strain virus, they would have found some compelling reasons.

see immediately above. What us the real risk?

That's a pointless cliché.

Its a statement of established fact. That you consider it cliche says much about your bias.

Too bad you don't have an answer and are too lazy to research and find out. While you get to work on answering that, consider that some of us know people who developed clinical measles from the vaccination and then spread it to other people.

What is far more important than the statistics is your complete refusal to attempt to support your assertions with any real research. That was my true objective in asking, revealing your lack of research and your unwillingness to actually do any.

Make up your minds. You don't support it generally, but you do support it for certain diseases.

I support it when warranted. Look at the history of typhoid. Just as God ordered the diseased to be isolated, I see no difference in vaccinating to keep all healthy.

In other words, you have no problem persecuting my children for no good reason.

You have no problem exposing my children to needless risk of infection. Tell me, what is the difference between us.

Will you forbid them from using public transportation, too? Yes? No? Why? Why not?

if they had a disease that warranted such a restriction, absolutely. Typhoid. Ebola.

 

[Jose Fly]

My point is, that the push is on to disallow exemptions for any reason.

I haven't seen anyone advocate not allowing legitimate medical exemptions. Do you have any examples of where people are?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Hepatitis B is a routine vaccination, mandated along with hepatitis A by the public schools in my state.

Babies are given three doses of hep B vaccine before 16 months of age. See the CDC vaccine schedule.



Please get educated. Your ignorance is part of the problem.

I just got home and checked our vaccination records. We did do Hep B. My bad. I was thinking of Hep C which I do believe is based on exposure.

 

[Jose Fly]

What do you mean where people are? The whole point of this discussion is that there is a push by pro-vaxxers to make ALL exemptions obsolete.

Do you have any examples of people advocating not allowing even medical exemptions of any kind?

 

[Jose Fly]

No, that is an obvious exemption.

Ok, thanks.

 

[Jose Fly]

What if chip implants become mandated, for the greater good, for the benefit of the herd?

Then I will request Tim's Jalapeno. :cheers:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

That is exactly Elo's point. He makes it over and over again.

Your argument amounts to claiming the vax parent acted in good faith, so no punishment, while ALSO claiming the non-vax parent did not.

Yet, you know the non-vax parent is protecting their child every bit as much as the vaxing parent is.

What other public-health related sacrifices of conscience do you expect that people make and where would you finally draw the line?

(try to keep on topic and on top of the actual exchange we are having, the question of whether or not measles vaccines mutate doesn't happen over here)

No. Be caused forced isolation is moral.

Forced isolation is non-invasive, but also Biblical under the correct circumstances.

By contrast, forced infection with vaccine strains or other forced biological enhancements or services to the community are very invasive in body and mind.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Of course there can be exemptions. Kids on chemo for example can't get certain vaccines, or kids born without spleens.


No, but if you bring your unvaccinated kid into public, you are deliberately and knowingly putting kids like the above at risk, and should be held accountable for your decision.

Can't have it both ways.

You can't treat a public place as though you have an expectation to encounter no contagions. Vulnerable people are the ones who need to take precautions individually in order to safely mingle or stay out of public.