Forced Vaccination is Wrong

[elohiym]

Get educated, Cabinetmaker.

Silent Epidemic: The Untold Story of Vaccines

 

[CabinetMaker]

Not for students with computers. And adults can choose dangerous jobs and travel, but kids? What if you had to fly them to school in Alaska? Shouldn't school be required to be done at home then if internet is available??

No. Classroom interaction is extremely beneficial to learning.

But why bother to save 2,000 kids a year if help doesn't come in a needle?

You can continue to compare apples and oranges if you wish but the two are not analogous. Infectious and communicable diseases and automobile accidents are separate issues with vastly different considerations.

You don't see how you lose the debate if that's true. Besides, Nuremburg already decided what's being done is immoral.

I don't lose the debate by agreeing to an obvious fact, a fact that I have pointed out before.

If you will force them to take a vaccine to do their job or attend daycare or education. YES. Otherwise you are a hypocrite. Saving lives is not the game. Saving the pharm is.

Again, infectious and communicable diseases and automobile accidents are separate issues with vastly different considerations. Each are dealt with differently.

Without proof you say it. Mhmmm... sure... That justifies crimes against humanity, I see.

I probably should post some links to reputable medical journals. You seem to ignore them in your own searches for information.

People at High Risk for Flu complications

Human rights allow me to choose my relative medical risks.

Not when those risks present real risks to the rest of the population. Look at the current laws regarding typhoid. And these ARE enforced.

Sacrifice the few for the many? See Nuremburg. Utilitarianism fails.

Given that I am not sacrificing anybody for anything, I'll chalk this comment up to hyperbole and give it all the consideration it is due - none.

Unreal. Don't feed them and hydrate them first, give them shots in their weakened state. As if that isn't a dangerous and foolish idea.

What they need to resist death and bolster the immune system is food, water and a lack of violent oppression with the attendant stresses that causes. Their immune systems will perk back up.

Two prong approach. Protect them from disease while working on the nutritional component. I'm surprised at how single minded you are.

If I even suspected my kids were exposed the measles I would quarantine them if they were in a school with impoverished children who might end up catching it from them. School can be done at home.

Do you know that a person infected with measles is asymptomatic for the first 4 days? Did you know that a person during these first 4 days is also contagious to others? By the time you suspect your kids have been exposed you are already to late.

Here's one for you: How would you feel if you sneezed on an old lady in church and killed her? Would you feel better if you were fully vaccinated? Would it really make you feel any better about it?
I would feel guilty if it were truly me that caused the death.

You can prevent it with nutrition and thus prevent a greatly increased risk of infections and death without a vaccine. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/preventing-diabetes-full-story/

I see that you choose to ignore the fact that a great many people in our own country are hungry and, therefore, suitable to disease. Funny how something as simple as a vaccination can help these people stay healthy and you are opposed to it.

No, it's always true that they are at reduced risk of infection. Never are sick or malnourished people at an advantage over them.

And you miss the point again. *sigh*

Your standard for healthy is dubious and your assertion ridiculous. Healthy people don't get sick "like anybody else."

Yes, they do. I've seen body builders who are fanatic about nutrition and exercise get completely wiped out by the flu. Home in bed, major aches and pains, runny nose, sick as anybody else with a bad case of the flu. Why, because nutrition by itself does not provide immunity from a virus.

A friend of mine lost a father to blood shortage. It happens.

Yes, it does and it is sad when it does.

You are still gonna have to check what Cali's doing;

http://www.sb277.org/

There is a reason I don't live in California and will not. In any case, the Disneyland outbreak certainly revealed the danger of going through life unvaccinated.

 

[6days]

What's wrong with forced vacations?
I had one last year and totally enjoyed it. :dizzy:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

No. Classroom interaction is extremely beneficial to learning.

Online classrooms interact plenty without the risk of infectious diseases or travel. There are already public school online programs. The problem with them is 2 fold; that they still demand vaccines and that they don't require home education for all students who can't get a waiver*, which is hypocrisy in the land of vaccine-Nazis who don't really want to save children but make money.

*a waiver for staying at home, I mean. If they have to get waivers for vaccines, they should be required to show proof they can't be home-students if they are to travel to school and possibly spread diseases that can't be controlled with a needle.

You can continue to compare apples and oranges if you wish but the two are not analogous. Infectious and communicable diseases and automobile accidents are separate issues with vastly different considerations.

What, an epidemic of preventable death and disability isn't a public health issue we should deal with? Only if you can prevent it with a needle, huh?

I don't lose the debate by agreeing to an obvious fact, a fact that I have pointed out before.

You are right. You lost the debate long ago. Over and over. But we can agree that the obvious fact is a strong decider on who lives or dies.

Again, infectious and communicable diseases and automobile accidents are separate issues with vastly different considerations. Each are dealt with differently.

You mean no matter the risk, kids should get to travel to school if they choose to, since they have the right to travel freely.

They also have another risk, the risk from vaccinations and the risk of infectious disease, even if vaccinated. They should have the right, and their parents, to make an informed non-coerced decision. They should not be discriminated against.

I probably should post some links to reputable medical journals.

Considering that you easily criticize the OP and are here to debate, yes.

Not when those risks present real risks to the rest of the population. Look at the current laws regarding typhoid. And these ARE enforced.

You don't force gallbladder removal or vaccines in that law.

Given that I am not sacrificing anybody for anything, I'll chalk this comment up to hyperbole and give it all the consideration it is due - none.

In your world you aren't sacrificing the children who take vaccines and fall ill or die from it for all the other children that supposedly need them to get that shot. Got it.

Two prong approach. Protect them from disease while working on the nutritional component. I'm surprised at how single minded you are.

You want to give the vaccines instead of waiting for them to get healthy first, even knowing weak people are more easily hurt by vaccines. Besides, if they continue starving now and then, the vaccines will fail during exposure in hard times. Bam - atypical measles.

Do you know that a person infected with measles is asymptomatic for the first 4 days? Did you know that a person during these first 4 days is also contagious to others? By the time you suspect your kids have been exposed you are already to late.

Once my kid is reported to be exposed, that is days before they become contagious. The teacher/school official who knows and fails to report exposures to parents and other staff is the one who should be held liable for complications.

Here's one for you: How would you feel if you sneezed on an old lady in church and killed her? Would you feel better if you were fully vaccinated? Would it really make you feel any better about it?
I would feel guilty if it were truly me that caused the death.

Yet you have false confidence about the guy sniffling next to you if he's vaccinated. You remember that one?

I see that you choose to ignore the fact that a great many people in our own country are hungry and, therefore, suitable to disease. Funny how something as simple as a vaccination can help these people stay healthy and you are opposed to it.

I addressed it head on. I said if there were at-risk kids in my kids school, bla-bla-bla etc. Go read for the exact words.

Yes, they do. I've seen body builders who are fanatic about nutrition and exercise get completely wiped out by the flu. Home in bed, major aches and pains, runny nose, sick as anybody else with a bad case of the flu. Why, because nutrition by itself does not provide immunity from a virus.

My bodybuilder friend was explaining to me how unhealthy the sport was, actually. :think: Their BMI is obese as pro-competitors. Being high BMI with muscle taxes the body greatly.

Yes, it does and it is sad when it does.

Well blood saves lives and it comes from a needle, so there you go, mandate those blood drives. We don't have enough. Chronically. Public health and all. Forget Nuremburg and informed consent. Toss rule #1 right out the window. :bang:

There is a reason I don't live in California and will not.

What's that?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Online classrooms interact plenty without the risk of infectious diseases or travel. There are already public school online programs. The problem with them is 2 fold; that they still demand vaccines and that they don't require home education for all students who can't get a waiver*, which is hypocrisy in the land of vaccine-Nazis who don't really want to save children but make money.

*a waiver for staying at home, I mean. If they have to get waivers for vaccines, they should be required to show proof they can't be home-students if they are to travel to school and possibly spread diseases that can't be controlled with a needle.



What, an epidemic of preventable death and disability isn't a public health issue we should deal with? Only if you can prevent it with a needle, huh?



You are right. You lost the debate long ago. Over and over. But we can agree that the obvious fact is a strong decider on who lives or dies.



You mean no matter the risk, kids should get to travel to school if they choose to, since they have the right to travel freely.

They also have another risk, the risk from vaccinations and the risk of infectious disease, even if vaccinated. They should have the right, and their parents, to make an informed non-coerced decision. They should not be discriminated against.



Considering that you easily criticize the OP and are here to debate, yes.



You don't force gallbladder removal or vaccines in that law.



In your world you aren't sacrificing the children who take vaccines and fall ill or die from it for all the other children that supposedly need them to get that shot. Got it.



You want to give the vaccines instead of waiting for them to get healthy first, even knowing weak people are more easily hurt by vaccines. Besides, if they continue starving now and then, the vaccines will fail during exposure in hard times. Bam - atypical measles.



Once my kid is reported to be exposed, that is days before they become contagious. The teacher/school official who knows and fails to report exposures to parents and other staff is the one who should be held liable for complications.



Yet you have false confidence about the guy sniffling next to you if he's vaccinated. You remember that one?



I addressed it head on. I said if there were at-risk kids in my kids school, bla-bla-bla etc. Go read for the exact words.




My bodybuilder friend was explaining to me how unhealthy the sport was, actually. :think: Their BMI is obese as pro-competitors. Being high BMI with muscle taxes the body greatly.



Well blood saves lives and it comes from a needle, so there you go, mandate those blood drives. We don't have enough. Chronically. Public health and all. Forget Nuremburg and informed consent. Toss rule #1 right out the window. :bang:




What's that?

I let my 18 year old daughter read this. She had a ball pointing out all of your logicall fallacies. She was dumbfounded at your lack of critical reasoning skills. She says thanks for the laugh. I'll reply later after we have fed the horses.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

And my 14 year old is reading this. She doesn't share your point of view.

I dare you to have your daughter watch the 2 videos posted on thread page 21 and see what she thinks then.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

That's post 307 and 313 to be exact.

 

[elohiym]

I let my 18 year old daughter read this.

I doubt you let her read our exchanges. :chuckle:

She had a ball pointing out all of your logicall fallacies.

Did she point out all your logical fallacies, or is she going to give you a pass? I can direct her to some really asinine things you've said in these vaccine discussions. Her feedback would be welcome.

Since her mom is a pharmacist and pays the bills with money she makes selling the drug companies products, I don't expect anything but blind loyalty from her.

She was dumbfounded at your lack of critical reasoning skills.

How does she miss that you obviously lack critical reasoning skills? Let her read all the vaccine discussions you've been involved in. Will she overlook your posting false stories about fake people, making false statements about how live vaccines work, etc?

She says thanks for the laugh.

Will she be laughing if she can't have children? Will you be laughing if your grandchild is injured by a vaccine?

I'll reply later after we have fed the horses.

So we'll have more manure to shovel? Unless you are trying to argue that vaccinations should be forced, what purpose do you have on this thread?

 

[CabinetMaker]

That's post 307 and 313 to be exact.

We watched it. In the first 1:04 minutes of the video the woman had completely misrepresented HIV, TB, chlamydia, syphilis and gonorrhea that it was obvious she was not going to present anything other than sensationalized false hoods. She was not impressed.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

We watched it. In the first 1:04 minutes of the video the woman had completely misrepresented HIV, TB, chlamydia, syphilis and gonorrhea that it was obvious she was not going to present anything other than sensationalized false hoods. She was not impressed.

Exactly HOW did Barbara misrepresent those diseases?

 

[CabinetMaker]

I doubt you let her read our exchanges. :chuckle:

Why wouldn't I? Your position is no different than 1PM and no better reasoned.

Did she point out all your logical fallacies, or is she going to give you a pass? I can direct her to some really asinine things you've said in these vaccine discussions. Her feedback would be welcome.

She found my points to Bo logical and consistent with current methods and practices of infectious and communicable diseases.

Since her mom is a pharmacist and pays the bills with money she makes selling the drug companies products, I don't expect anything but blind loyalty from her.

My wife us a pharicist, not a doctor proscribing and administering vaccines. As such, she does not discuss vaccinations with her mom nore do vaccines provide a sorce of income fir us. My daughter is in college and working towards a degree in chemical engineering.

How does she miss that you obviously lack critical reasoning skills? Let her read all the vaccine discussions you've been involved in. Will she overlook your posting false stories about fake people, making false statements about how live vaccines work, etc?

Still not convinced that the story was completely false nor factually inaccurate. In any case she has seen mt arguments and 1PM's responses. She laughed at comparing infectious and communicable diseases to car accidents. My daughter understood that they entirely separate issues.

Will she be laughing if she can't have children? Will you be laughing if your grandchild is injured by a vaccine?

There is no compelling evidence to support your assertion. Is it a risk? Yes. Is it an eminent risk? No. Is it a risk that outweighs the risk of cancer? No. Relative risk assessment. We have examined them, made a decision and are living life happily.

So we'll have more manure to shovel? Unless you are trying to argue that vaccinations should be forced, what purpose do you have on this thread?

this thread is about far more than just forced vaccination. It has become about vaccination in general. I cannot let people disseminating such gross misinformation and out right lies go unchecked.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Exactly HOW did Barbara misrepresent those diseases?

Method of infection. People with HIV are not isolated which is true. The question is why and she us misleading as to why. People with TB are isolated and forced to undergo a specific regiment of observed treatment.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Method of infection.

She wasn't describing a method of infection. Is that the best you two have to offer?

 

[CabinetMaker]

She wasn't describing a method of infection. Is that the best you two have to offer?

No, she wasn't and that's the problem. She is lying to people by mis stating the facts.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

No, she wasn't and that's the problem.

The problem is that your daughter doesn't understand why Fisher brought up those diseases.

Does your daughter understand that Fisher's oldest child was injured by DPT and the T is not for a communicable disease?

Does your daughter understand that people with certain communicable diseases in school aren't discriminated against like with the unvaccinated even when they are contagious?

Would she deny that? Surely she's seen it for herself.

She is lying to people by mis stating the facts.

You are - or did you forget what vaccines are on the "required" list?

 

[oatmeal]

Forcing me to take a vacation seems a bit overbearing

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Forcing me to take a vacation seems a bit overbearing

Joking aside, what do you think of what Cali is doing?

Some of these children might actually take a forced vacation from school - or even life, if these vaccines are pushed on them.

 

[fzappa13]

In His infinite wisdom, God has seen fit to allow us to make our own choices and account for them. In his finite wisdom man sees fit to choose for his fellow man but declines to take responsibility for that.

 

[CabinetMaker]

The problem is that your daughter doesn't understand why Fisher brought up those diseases.

Does your daughter understand that Fisher's oldest child was injured by DPT and the T is not for a communicable disease?

Does your daughter understand that people with certain communicable diseases in school aren't discriminated against like with the unvaccinated even when they are contagious?

Would she deny that? Surely she's seen it for herself.



You are - or did you forget what vaccines are on the "required" list?

Yes, my daughter understands that. My daughter also understand why certain diseases that can be communicated don't represent at threat and don't require vaccinations or isolation. Me daughter understands that there are risks from vaccines and a disease and she understands how to evaluate those risks. I tales with my youngest this morning, 15, and she understand it as well.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Yes, my daughter understands that.

What is your daughter's reason why refusing tetanus shot can keep a kid out of school? But having a communicable sexual disease doesn't, even if you are required to be vaccinated for that sexual disease if you don't already have it.

My daughter also understand why certain diseases that can be communicated don't represent at threat and don't require vaccinations or isolation.

Tetanus and HPV are required, despite being less communicable than other diseases kids carry in school.

Me daughter understands that there are risks from vaccines and a disease and she understands how to evaluate those risks.

Does she really? How would TOL know, based on what you've said? Can she speak for herself?

I tales with my youngest this morning, 15, and she understand it as well.

Can she speak for herself? Just wondering.