foolish question
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You.allsmiles said:
Really??? Wow... I sure wouldn't.koban said:
There are times that picking and choosing who you kill in warfare isn't a very good idea.
Sometimes you just need to wipe the slate clean like we should have done after 9-11.
In the end it will cost more lives.
A different example to be sure... but an example none the less.allsmiles said:
No.allsmiles said:
And if He did you would reject him even further.
It isn't about belief... it's about willingness to follow. Your willingness to follow would only INCREASE with your increased knowledge of the reality of God's existence.
my eyes opened..
the thoughts that entered my head matched the darkness of the room. black. black as the moments before rational explanations for vile things sooth the soul, numb the memory, anaesthetise the conscience. my dreams had been vivid. arms separated from shoulders by thrown blades that continued their arcs, forever filling the visions of the entities that dreamed these dreams for me. the unlucky ones who briefly survived screamed not about injustice, but about a chance at life. their most vital and honest moments came right before their very lives erupted past their meaningless attempts to hold them together.
such were my dreams.
and the blackness i awoke to comforted me somewhat. a dream can fade. ive forgotten enough of them already to know that. all i know at these times is my immediate future. my future that is besieged upon by authorities that propagate fear direct to the very core of my being. it manifests unnaturally sudden movement. mere seconds have fled before the dreams are banished to some dark recess that only sombre reflection will dare grope nervously toward. reflection, though, implies hope. there is no hope to be found here. just the savage end that has become hopelessly familiar. perhaps the only hope is that the end will be the quick one.
no. there is no hope.
...
are my eyes open?
a crack of light appeared that scared me more than anything else could have. the sense of the end arced down the back of me and left my extremes tinged with terror. that it was only the door and the light from the living room, fluorescent and modern, harsh and bright, yet not out of place one bit, did nothing to rationalise the dread certainty i would carry for the rest of the day. of that i was certain.
the light admitted only one thing. it showed me where the weapons were. sword, slightly smaller than usual, a brace of callers, theyd need bundling, and knives. lots of knives. already dressed i simply grabbed the arsenal relying more on luck than anything else that i did not leave a deposit to ensure their rightful return. and stumbling into the living room over a barrel of waste paper the thought came back with the pain of a bruised shin, i would only need the sword today.
for the first time in a long time, perhaps ever, i swore. i mix with soldiers and they swear all the time, but theyd never heard me swear. many heard me this time. i think i may have woken a few of them with a single word, spat contemptuously against the wall that needed painting anyway. the callers followed the word and are probably still there, impaled inches deep into something that wouldnt separate or bleed.
and for another first i had a sudden urge to eat. not only to eat, but also to wash.
and the memory stops there for here i am now. if i ate then i dont recall and regardless, i will never eat again. if i washed then it matters little now for these stains will never come free. i look to the people with me who are following the same code. we are everyone and they are no one. nothing is left. nothing remains. emptiness prevails yet it will go on eternally. and i am still there.
the thoughts that entered my head matched the darkness of the room. black. black as the moments before rational explanations for vile things sooth the soul, numb the memory, anaesthetise the conscience. my dreams had been vivid. arms separated from shoulders by thrown blades that continued their arcs, forever filling the visions of the entities that dreamed these dreams for me. the unlucky ones who briefly survived screamed not about injustice, but about a chance at life. their most vital and honest moments came right before their very lives erupted past their meaningless attempts to hold them together.
such were my dreams.
and the blackness i awoke to comforted me somewhat. a dream can fade. ive forgotten enough of them already to know that. all i know at these times is my immediate future. my future that is besieged upon by authorities that propagate fear direct to the very core of my being. it manifests unnaturally sudden movement. mere seconds have fled before the dreams are banished to some dark recess that only sombre reflection will dare grope nervously toward. reflection, though, implies hope. there is no hope to be found here. just the savage end that has become hopelessly familiar. perhaps the only hope is that the end will be the quick one.
no. there is no hope.
...
are my eyes open?
a crack of light appeared that scared me more than anything else could have. the sense of the end arced down the back of me and left my extremes tinged with terror. that it was only the door and the light from the living room, fluorescent and modern, harsh and bright, yet not out of place one bit, did nothing to rationalise the dread certainty i would carry for the rest of the day. of that i was certain.
the light admitted only one thing. it showed me where the weapons were. sword, slightly smaller than usual, a brace of callers, theyd need bundling, and knives. lots of knives. already dressed i simply grabbed the arsenal relying more on luck than anything else that i did not leave a deposit to ensure their rightful return. and stumbling into the living room over a barrel of waste paper the thought came back with the pain of a bruised shin, i would only need the sword today.
for the first time in a long time, perhaps ever, i swore. i mix with soldiers and they swear all the time, but theyd never heard me swear. many heard me this time. i think i may have woken a few of them with a single word, spat contemptuously against the wall that needed painting anyway. the callers followed the word and are probably still there, impaled inches deep into something that wouldnt separate or bleed.
and for another first i had a sudden urge to eat. not only to eat, but also to wash.
and the memory stops there for here i am now. if i ate then i dont recall and regardless, i will never eat again. if i washed then it matters little now for these stains will never come free. i look to the people with me who are following the same code. we are everyone and they are no one. nothing is left. nothing remains. emptiness prevails yet it will go on eternally. and i am still there.
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allsmiles
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Knight said:
i disagree. there's no way you can know that.
you're basing this claim on a flawed comparison.
you compare me to pharaoh, but he had the very real presence of your god's power in not only his life but in the life of his fellow Egyptians. you admit that there is no such presence of power in my life, therefore comparing me to pharaoh is fatally flawed.
Pharaoh had first hand knowledge of the power of your god... i don't. you're asking me to make a leap of faith that pharaoh didn't make with the power of your god at his finger tips.
i must first believe and then i'll see the reality of your god's existence when your example is the other way around. Pharaoh had the reality of your god's existence first and did not submit, i must submit and then the reality will be revealed.
wouldn't it be more efficient for your god to first establish his presence and power and then allow us to make our decision as pharaoh did? obviously we still have the choice as your example illustrates so we needn't worry about our free will vanishing.
allsmiles
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as an aside, i do realize that i'm missing your point Knight... that your god doesn't reveal himself now as he did to pharaoh because of your assertion that direct revelation would only result in a greater pushing away from him.
after reconsideration, i understand the logic of that point, and within the assertion, it makes sense.
i'm an impetuous guy, in case you haven't noticed :chuckle: it's easy for me to shoot from the hip.
at the same time, examining the circumstances of the pharaoh example, i'm not convinced that this would be applicable to, for instance, Og or Sihon. and especially in light of Romans 9:17.
not that i'm necessarily trying to use this passage as justification for rejecting god... hardly, but i find the acceptance to be more difficult to take responsibility for.
so, why didn't your god choose to have mercy on Og and Sihon, or Arad, when it was within his power to do so? wouldn't a display of his mercy have been more effective? the bible says the Israelites sent emissaries to Sihon and i believe to Og too, but no where do they proclaim the wonder of their god, nor does your god give them opportunity to observe his mercy.
after reconsideration, i understand the logic of that point, and within the assertion, it makes sense.
i'm an impetuous guy, in case you haven't noticed :chuckle: it's easy for me to shoot from the hip.
at the same time, examining the circumstances of the pharaoh example, i'm not convinced that this would be applicable to, for instance, Og or Sihon. and especially in light of Romans 9:17.
not that i'm necessarily trying to use this passage as justification for rejecting god... hardly, but i find the acceptance to be more difficult to take responsibility for.
so, why didn't your god choose to have mercy on Og and Sihon, or Arad, when it was within his power to do so? wouldn't a display of his mercy have been more effective? the bible says the Israelites sent emissaries to Sihon and i believe to Og too, but no where do they proclaim the wonder of their god, nor does your god give them opportunity to observe his mercy.
pentatonic145
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Okay, but why are you posing the question? Better yet - why are you running from God? You better start running towards him while you still have breath in your body, Fool.fool said:
I don't come to this forum to vaunt my perceived intellectual superiority over other people. I don't come here to look down my nose at people who are "less moral" or "more sinful" than I am. Truth be told, I'm probably one of the less intelligent, more sinful people who visits this forum.
Crap - why am I here?
I just think it's important for you and everyone else to know that Jesus is God and he wants to have a relationship with you. And this fact will not be revealed to you by any other man but by God himself - if you ask him. I encourage you to ask - with an open heart - God: Who are you? The answer will be irrefutably revealed to you, if you desire to know it, despite the fact that the answer may not confirm your view on theology.
Athiest are a very small percentage of the population, their not the ones makeing this the abortingest country in the world. If all the Athiest disappeared, I doubt it would make a dent in the abortion numbers. I think that Athiest value life more that Thiest since they think that's all there is.Yorzhik said:
That brings up another point, without hearing it right from Yaweh how do you know Josh didn't mess up? Or his note taker dropped a word or two? Ever work someplace with incompetent managment?GuySmiley said:
I'm not so sure about that, in some of Josh's latter conquests he kept the breeders for his men. Also, in an agrarian culture slaves are like free farming machines.
You're right, it dosen't change the subject much, unless you try to switch out butcher for "bring home" or "move to the next phase". Also, butcher is a little more accurate than "pierce" we're not talking about jewelry here.
It's the same God, so you're signing up with the same gang that does these sorts of things and dosen't see a problem with it.
SUTG
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The whole question seems to me to be just another variation of Euthypro's Dilemna. In other words, would you perform an act that was requested by God if it seemed contrary to your own idea of morals.
Alot of Christians will claim that their standard of morals comes from God, but I don't buy it. I think it works the other way around with most. They make their own moral standards just like everyone else, and then they attempt to find scripture to support them.
It is easy to say "I will not Murder because I am a Christian" since you would have never murdered in the first place. But the real question is if you would behave in a way that you would not behave if you were not asked to do so by God.
I think a better question for most of the people here is whether or not they would become a :flamer: for a year on God's request. :chuckle:
You'll notice, for example, when Bob Enyart answers questions about morality, he usually gives a line of reasoning and then quotes scripture. Well, if it is in scripture, then why is any line of reasoning given by any human relevant at all?
Alot of Christians will claim that their standard of morals comes from God, but I don't buy it. I think it works the other way around with most. They make their own moral standards just like everyone else, and then they attempt to find scripture to support them.
It is easy to say "I will not Murder because I am a Christian" since you would have never murdered in the first place. But the real question is if you would behave in a way that you would not behave if you were not asked to do so by God.
I think a better question for most of the people here is whether or not they would become a :flamer: for a year on God's request. :chuckle:
You'll notice, for example, when Bob Enyart answers questions about morality, he usually gives a line of reasoning and then quotes scripture. Well, if it is in scripture, then why is any line of reasoning given by any human relevant at all?
I can understand your sentiment. People equate babies with supreme innocence and so the murder of a baby is the ultimate transgression. Nonetheless, it seems like babies are less likely to suffer emotionally during the ordeal. An adult knows what is coming and fears the result. Who knows, I can't even imagine murdering anyone.
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