foolish question

[fool]

If God told me to kill innocent babies, I'd find a new religion.....

So you'd bail on Yaweh if you we're an old time Isreali soldier?
He's the same God now isn't he?

 

[kmoney]

So you'd bail on Yaweh if you we're an old time Isreali soldier?
He's the same God now isn't he?

Well my statement was kinda an off the cuff reaction, but in all honesty I just don't see myself going through with something like that. So yes, maybe I would bail on Him on the battle field.

I still need to listen to parts 2-4. Haven't had time yet....

 

[Balder]

Well, golly, Fool, I hope you get more answers to this question. Though I suppose it's actually a good sign (and not surprising) that people aren't rushing in to say they're ready to chop up infants for God. It's easy to justify and defend events that are enshrined in a book, performed by strangers in the distant past; harder to imagine doing it oneself.

I have a related question, which is, Would Jesus have been comfortable, and morally justified, asking his disciples to go into a gentile village and kill every living being in it?

 

[pentatonic145]

Wow - we are the ones who are OPPOSED to the "chopping up" of babies - ie ABORTION. God has never asked me to do that so this hypothetical question isn't really applicable...Just trying to start some crap; that's all it seems to be.

Boy - when you're dead wrong about the most important thing in the universe, I guess you've really got to dig deep to contrive some foolishness on which to base your incorrect beliefs.

 

[kmoney]

The "God will never ask me to do this" line is a cop out.....

 

[pentatonic145]

You couldn't be referring to my post - I said "God has never asked me to do that", not "God will never ask me to do this"

 

[kmoney]

You couldn't be referring to my post - I said "God has never asked me to do that", not "God will never ask me to do this"

Well obviously it's a hypothetical. Do you never answer hypotheticals?

 

[pentatonic145]

I guess I'm just saying that; regardless of what my answer or the answer of any other Christian may be to that question, it doesn't affirm what Fool is implying - that the God of the Bible is not who born-again Christians maintain that he is. God is who he says he is (in the Bible) no matter what anyone says or thinks.

I'll stab at an answer: If God asked me to do something like that, and I was certain it was God (if it really was God, there would be zero doubt) then I can only hope I would have the obedience to carry out his orders. Honestly, confronted with such a grisly task, I might fold in the face of the command and rebel, even though it would be a sin. But I hope I would have the strength to obey - I guess I can't be certain exactly how I would react unless I was truly faced with that situation.

Let God be true and every man a liar!

 

[kmoney]

hey fool, did anyone post part 4 on TOL?

 

[pentatonic145]

See, God doesn't ask people to sin - just the opposite! Jesus told us to pray: "Lead us not into temptation".

God's reasons for doing things or commanding us to do things may seem unreasonable to us, but he is infallible and he always has a just reason for everything he does and every command he issues. We can't see the big picture and God is under no obligation to explain his every decision to us. That's where faith comes in.

Now Fool - I say, don't let a misunderstanding like that come between you having a relationship with the Living God. It's not a good enough reason to miss the best gift you could ever receive. It's not a good idea to point out the seeming "fallacies" of the Bible, while ignoring the fact that you are a sinner desperately in need of salvation. It's like, you're drowing and your arguing with the guy in the lifeboat about what color swimming trunks he's wearing!

 

[Johnny]

Hi fool. I've followed your debate with Bob with great interest! I think you made a lot of good points. I'll comment on them after I've answered your question.

If I was completely sure that the God of the universe was telling me to slaughter infants then I would slaughter infants. It sounds savage, I know. It is savage. Today I would be labelled a psychopathic killer and probably sentenced to death. I would be spit on by the church itself for thinking that God was telling me to kill babies. What I find particularly hypocritical is that the scorn and disdain with which Christians look at muslims for doing the very same thing. Radical muslims and suicide bombers think they are doing God's will in the same way Joshua was sure he was doing God's will. They are both equally convinced of their rightness and justness. All this to say that I think if you were absolutely convinced the God of this universe was telling you the same thing, your reaction would be no different than Joshua's, Osama's, or mine.

Just to comment on your discussion quickly (I need to go to bed), I think you did handled yourself well. I think you could have agreed that it is justifiable for God to kill willing believers without sacrificing your position at all. I was waiting for you to say "yea, so what?" There is a large logical gap that Bob would have to jump to go from willing believers to unwilling unbelievers and babies.

I also thought you should have played up the free-will aspect of this more than you did. Free will is the holy grail for open theists. If God kills an unbeliever against their will then by definition he has violated their free will. I thought open theists rewrote the Bible so as to avoid violating free will.

 

[Shalom]

Only an Atheist would say it's wrong to butcher an infant?
WOW

Is that what I said...............NO :duh:

 

[Shalom]

I guess I'm just saying that; regardless of what my answer or the answer of any other Christian may be to that question, it doesn't affirm what Fool is implying - that the God of the Bible is not who born-again Christians maintain that he is. God is who he says he is (in the Bible) no matter what anyone says or thinks.

I'll stab at an answer: If God asked me to do something like that, and I was certain it was God (if it really was God, there would be zero doubt) then I can only hope I would have the obedience to carry out his orders. Honestly, confronted with such a grisly task, I might fold in the face of the command and rebel, even though it would be a sin. But I hope I would have the strength to obey - I guess I can't be certain exactly how I would react unless I was truly faced with that situation.

Let God be true and every man a liar!

I agree.....

It was a different dipensation in the old testament. In most of the old testament there is a strong repeating pattern of God asking people to be obedient to His commands.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Well the 4 part radio debate has come to an abrupt end and now I'll put the question to the general public.
Here's the story;
You're a soldier in Joshua's army, you got order's to smote everyone in town A, you've killed all the men, and the women, and now it's time to butcher the infants.
Don't be shy!
Step right up and tell me what you'd do.

This is a very foolish question.

If you look at the history of war, you will find that killing every man, woman, and child of a town is a normal occurance. That is why they say war is hell. People have mixed reactions to killing children in war, but it is done all the time. This is not much different than being one of the men who had to drop an atomic bomb on Nagasaki after seeing what atomic bombs did to Hiroshima. The only difference is that in war we now kill at long range so we cannot see the blood.

Here is another question:
If you were an athiest, and someone told you that you had to kill an infant to keep it from messing up your life, would you pay for the abortion and have it done?

 

[Shalom]

Hi fool. I've followed your debate with Bob with great interest! I think you made a lot of good points. I'll comment on them after I've answered your question.

If I was completely sure that the God of the universe was telling me to slaughter infants then I would slaughter infants. It sounds savage, I know. It is savage. Today I would be labelled a psychopathic killer and probably sentenced to death. I would be spit on by the church itself for thinking that God was telling me to kill babies. What I find particularly hypocritical is that the scorn and disdain with which Christians look at muslims for doing the very same thing. Radical muslims and suicide bombers think they are doing God's will in the same way Joshua was sure he was doing God's will. They are both equally convinced of their rightness and justness. All this to say that I think if you were absolutely convinced the God of this universe was telling you the same thing, your reaction would be no different than Joshua's, Osama's, or mine.

This is a really good post Johnny but I wanted to respond to your "hypocritical Christians look at the muslims with scorn and disdain for doing the very same thing." It is because we know that the muslims are not serving Him, not the righteous God of the bible. That is where the conflict lies.

And even if you use your

They are both equally convinced of their rightness and justness.

This argument it still doesnt make it right for them to serve a false god.

 

[eisenreich]

Now Fool - I say, don't let a misunderstanding like that come between you having a relationship with the Living God. It's not a good enough reason to miss the best gift you could ever receive. It's not a good idea to point out the seeming "fallacies" of the Bible, while ignoring the fact that you are a sinner desperately in need of salvation. It's like, you're drowing and your arguing with the guy in the lifeboat about what color swimming trunks he's wearing!

Pent, in case you haven't figured it out, most of the non-theists on this board were Christians at some point in their lives and made a conscious decision to leave the faith. It's great that you found something to replace your drug habit, but witnessing here is going to do little good, especially since most of these guys know the bible better than you do.

 

[Delmar]

Pent, in case you haven't figured it out, most of the non-theists on this board were Christians at some point in their lives and made a conscious decision to leave the faith. It's great that you found something to replace your drug habit, but witnessing here is going to do little good, especially since most of these guys know the bible better than you do.

Went to Sunday School, I'm sure. Know the Bible better than many Christian, sadly quite true! Made a conscious decision to reject what they were taught, without a doubt. Were Christians at some point in their lives, no way!

 

[Johnny]

It is because we know that the muslims are not serving Him, not the righteous God of the bible. That is where the conflict lies.

I am criticizing the "How could they" scorn that I see. Any Christian should understand why they do this. What we have in common is that we submit to what we believe is an ultimate authority. And of course, I agree that this does not justify their actions or their belief in a false god. They have fooled themselves.

 

[Granite]

Well the 4 part radio debate has come to an abrupt end and now I'll put the question to the general public.
Here's the story;
You're a soldier in Joshua's army, you got order's to smote everyone in town A, you've killed all the men, and the women, and now it's time to butcher the infants.
Don't be shy!
Step right up and tell me what you'd do.

This, or you've just been ordered to liquidate a ghetto. All Juden and undesirables are to be shot on sight. No exceptions.

Or you're given a hatchet and told to kill members of the "wrong" tribe.

I do not believe, no matter what the rhetoric or the cause, that I could bring myself to kill an infant in any circumstance.

I would have to refuse.

Incidently you did a great job throughout the show. Well done.

 

[Mr. 5020]

Well the 4 part radio debate has come to an abrupt end and now I'll put the question to the general public.
Here's the story;
You're a soldier in Joshua's army, you got order's to smote everyone in town A, you've killed all the men, and the women, and now it's time to butcher the infants.
Don't be shy!
Step right up and tell me what you'd do.

I would smite the infants.