ECT Enlightened about MAD

[Sherman]

The vast majority of Pentecostals and Charismatics are Dispensationalists.

The "date setters" are all Dispensationalists.

The vast majority of people who claim to be able to give prophecies are Dispensationalists.

The vast majority of Preterists believe the sign gifts ceased in 70AD.

mysteryboy makes up stuff, and ignores the facts.

Wrong! Dispensationalism and the Charismatic Movement tend to be antithetical to each other, especially the Mid Acts brand.

"Dispensationalists debate the doctrine of the baptism of the Holy Spirit on at least three fronts. First, they have generally been non-Pentecostaland have dismissed as unbiblical the teaching that Spirit baptism 30 produces speaking in tongues.1 Second, they have debated other non-Pentecostal 1 See, for example, John Walvoord, The Holy Spirit (Wheaton, Ill.: Van Kampen, 1954)180-88. Douglas A. Oss, an Associate Professor of Hermeneutics and New Testament atCentral Bible College in Springfield, Missouri, a Pentecostal school, brought a helpful paper to the Dispensational Study Group of ETS in November, 1991. Oss writes that"while a `Pentecostalized' version of dispensationalism has been part of the Pentecostal framework from the beginning, the rigid dualism of Scofieldism has never been part of mainstream Pentecostal scholarship" (Oss, "The Hermeneutics of Dispensationalism with the Pentecostal Tradition" 3-4). John Wimber writes, "Of all theologies, dispensationalism is probably the most antagonistic toward the charismatic gifts and Pentecostalism" (John Wimber, Power Evangelism [San Francisco: Harper and Row, 1986] 143).fundamentalists and evangelicals who believe that Spirit baptism was a second experience after conversion which greatly enhanced power for Christian service. "

Source:--->https://www.tms.edu/m/tmsj8b.pdf

 

[Lon]

This from the guy who thinks John 3:16 is the saving Gospel of grace.

Does MAD demark this from Paul's message? I mean some might, but as a general rule, I thought even MAD saw John 3 as prophetic of His life and saving work?

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
John 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

 

[tetelestai]

Wrong! Dispensationalism and the Charismatic Movement tend to be antithetical to each other, especially the Mid Acts brand.

I disagree. Go to any Assembly of God church and you will find Darby's rapture, the separation of Israel and the church, the 7 year trib, and the millennium all being taught.

All these things are the foundation of Dispensationalism.

Godrulz is a Dispensationalist on TOL, he believes in all the sign gifts.

 

[tetelestai]

Does MAD demark this from Paul's message? I mean some might, but as a general rule, I thought even MAD saw John 3 as prophetic of His life and saving work?

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
John 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

I can't speak for mus, but most MADists can't have anything that Paul taught be found before Acts 9.

Otherwise, their claim that the "mystery" was revealed to Paul and no one else falls apart. Not to mention their claim that Paul was the very first person in the Body of Christ.

 

[Lon]

I can't speak for mus, but most MADists can't have anything that Paul taught be found before Acts 9.

Otherwise, their claim that the "mystery" was revealed to Paul and no one else falls apart. Not to mention their claim that Paul was the very first person in the Body of Christ.

Oh, right. Thanks. Another might want to address it if that's not true, but I think you are correct. -Lon

 

[Eagles Wings]

I disagree. Go to any Assembly of God church and you will find Darby's rapture, the separation of Israel and the church, the 7 year trib, and the millennium all being taught.

All these things are the foundation of Dispensationalism.

Godrulz is a Dispensationalist on TOL, he believes in all the sign gifts.

We've witnessed this in Covenant, Methodist, Evangelical Free, and non-denominational churches we've visited. It seems to be pervasive.

 

[Sherman]

They did not teach that in the Assemblies church I used to attend. In fact they railed on millennialism.

The majority of your churches outside of reformed circles are going to be some shade of dispensationalist, the includes both evangelical and Pentecostal. Charismaticism is being found among Catholics, Lutherans and Baptists. There are some Calvinists out there that are also Pentecostal. So painting with a broad brush just doesn't fly. There is a unlimited number a shades of Dispensationalists as there is Penticostal. The two don't necessarily go together. Theoretically they are antithetical, because during the church age, the gifts are supposed to cease.

 

[Eagles Wings]

They did not teach that in the Assemblies church I used to attend. In fact they railed on millennialism.

The majority of your churches outside of reformed circles are going to be some shade of dispensationalist, the includes both evangelical and Pentecostal. Charismaticism is being found among Catholics, Lutherans and Baptists. There are some Calvinists out there that are also Pentecostal. So painting with a broad brush just doesn't fly. There is a unlimited number a shades of Dispensationalists as there is Penticostal. The two don't necessarily go together. Theoretically they are antithetical, because during the church age, the gifts are supposed to cease.

You are right about painting with a broad brush, which is why one must be exceptionally diligent and discerning about church membership. The choice for us is narrow indeed. Thank God, for His Grace and Providence.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The vast majority of Pentecostals and Charismatics are Dispensationalists.

The "date setters" are all Dispensationalists.

The vast majority of people who claim to be able to give prophecies are Dispensationalists.

The vast majority of Preterists believe the sign gifts ceased in 70AD.

mysteryboy makes up stuff, and ignores the facts.

You're a lying truckload full of baloney. What a "Super Liar" you are.

 

[tetelestai]

So painting with a broad brush just doesn't fly.

I was responding to musterion's claim:

Striking to realize that there's really nothing to stop someone going full out charismatic if he is taken in by covenant theology, of which preterism is a branch.

IMO, musterion has it backwards. There is nothing to stop someone going full out charismatic if he is taken in by Dispensational theology, not covenant theology (as he claims).

It's the Dispensationalists who are predicting the rapture, not Covenantal's.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Preterists such as TeT believe that Christ already returned to planet earth in 70AD in the form of the Roman legions. That's absurd.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

If you have a moment check out what the Pentecostal/Charismatic groups have been up to since the early 90s.

1) Acting drunk in the spirit.
2) False healings by Benny Hinn and other strange characters.
3) Slain in the Spirit.
4) False tongues that are only gibberish.
5) Mass laughing in the spirit.
6) Pretending that Jesus is on their stage and every time one
of their pastors gets within 20 feet of "christ" they fall to
the floor. Several of them just laying there.
7) False Claims of visiting Heaven.
8) Claiming that if people send them money God will give them back
far more. Playing on people's greed.
9) Claims of the dead being raised.
10) One preacher claimed that midgets were being healed.

Lie, after lie, after lie. And, it's all about MONEY.

One of these Pentecostal preachers said that he was told
to kick an old Lady in the face with his biker boot, so
he kicked her in the nose and she was healed. Another guy
who had stomach cancer was hit in the stomach and supposedly
healed.

The stories go on and on. Take a peek on You-Tube.

On You-Tube just look up phony healers such as Todd Bentley,
Benny Hinn, etc.

 

[tetelestai]

Preterists such as TeT believe that Christ already returned to planet earth in 70AD in the form of the Roman legions. That's absurd.

Wrong.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Wrong.

That's what posters have been saying you believe.

 

[musterion]

Thank you for going the extra mile for this, Musterion. I really appreciate you for that.

Well, Reformed, I don't think gets in the way. You perked my curiosity and so I looked this up and you are pretty much on the spot with those who are charismatic preterists (looked while waiting).

Thank you for checking on it, I'm sure you read them right.

I don't know much but one thing I've always had a knack for: tell me someone's basic assumptions about anything, and I'll tell you with a very high degree of accuracy what they're likely to think and do in a given situation. Of course there's no trick -- it simply involves paying attention, anyone could do that -- but many people who've known me have commented on it over the years (and it used to bug my wife when we first met and I could read her like a book). Thanks again for checking on it.

 

[musterion]

If you have a moment check out what the Pentecostal/Charismatic groups have been up to since the early 90s.

1) Acting drunk in the spirit.
2) False healings by Benny Hinn and other strange characters.
3) Slain in the Spirit.
4) False tongues that are only gibberish.
5) Mass laughing in the spirit.
6) Pretending that Jesus is on their stage and every time one
of their pastors gets within 20 feet of "christ" they fall to
the floor. Several of them just laying there.
7) False Claims of visiting Heaven.
8) Claiming that if people send them money God will give them back
far more. Playing on people's greed.
9) Claims of the dead being raised.
10) One preacher claimed that midgets were being healed.

Lie, after lie, after lie. And, it's all about MONEY.

One of these Pentecostal preachers said that he was told
to kick an old Lady in the face with his biker boot, so
he kicked her in the nose and she was healed. Another guy
who had stomach cancer was hit in the stomach and supposedly
healed.

The stories go on and on. Take a peek on You-Tube.

On You-Tube just look up phony healers such as Todd Bentley,
Benny Hinn, etc.

True, but much if not most of that goes all the way back to Asuza Street in 1900 or so, and some of it even earlier among various demonics. When it comes to charistmaticism, there is never anything new under the sun (well, magic gold fillings was a novel idea but no different than Oral Roberts tossing crutches in the trash). They're just getting technologically slicker and morally cruder at the same time (like Todd Bentley).

 

[john w]

Are you male or female? Cause, I don't know many men who are such drama queens like you are. You remind me a lot of God's Truth, she, like you, is really into drama.

That's rich, Craigie, coming from an emotionally distraught, wimp, and weasel, like you, with little arms, no chin, who lost his backbone/vertebrae/testosterone, years ago.


You effeminate actress-even you know it.

 

[Interplanner]

Preterists such as TeT believe that Christ already returned to planet earth in 70AD in the form of the Roman legions. That's absurd.

Historicals such as myself believe that the judgement declared to be on Israel in Lk 19, 21, 23, Mt24A etc, 2 Th 2, Heb 6, and others took place in the events of the 'Great Revolt.' I don't not believe this was the return in worldwide judgement of Mt 24B, Rom 2, Rom 8, 2 Peter 3.

 

[Interplanner]

Wrong.

Is the assertion or the report wrong?

 

[tetelestai]

Is the assertion or the report wrong?

Christ Jesus didn't come back to planet earth, and he didn't take the "form" of the Roman army.