possibly, but what I meant was that the amount of suicide by gun is considerably lower than simple murders, so let's no focus on it.....
Educational Gun Facts
- Thread starter Nazaroo
- Start date
possibly, but what I meant was that the amount of suicide by gun is considerably lower than simple murders, so let's no focus on it.....
:nono: No no no...We must focus on them all and every circumstance lumped in together with every other situation for it is indeed all...
Gun Violence™
Big scary black-gun violence is the worst. :listen:
This Charming Manc
Well-known member
Don't start trouble and you won't get shot
Nazaroo
New member
Critics here want to claim that the statistics are 45 years out of date, and therefore 'wrong'.
In fact, newer statistics are available to illustrate all kinds of gun facts:
Firearm homicide rates in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the United States and Pakistan, for the year 2010: 
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SInce the actual percentage of 'gun owners' in Afghanistan is lower than the USA,
the massively higher death rate must be explained other ways.
In the case of Afghanistan, both inadequate policing and a culture of gun violence
is a much better explanation of the high death rate than lawful ownership of guns.
But to say that for instance the ideologies and culture of the Middle East,
including ISLAM and its various sects is the real cause of gun violence would
not suit the ideas of Western liberals and socialists who are pro- big government
and anti- gun ownership.
Nazaroo
New member
Again, there are plenty of facts and charts that are much newer than 40 years old.
The following chart shows that while there have been marginal increases
and variations in violence recently, the overal trend in the past two decades
has been a decrease in gun violence.
Since this can't be attributed to gun confiscation and control,
it would be far more productive to study what factors actually DO reduce crime,
rather than focus on gun control laws which are for the most part adequate to their purpose:
The following chart shows that while there have been marginal increases
and variations in violence recently, the overal trend in the past two decades
has been a decrease in gun violence.
Since this can't be attributed to gun confiscation and control,
it would be far more productive to study what factors actually DO reduce crime,
rather than focus on gun control laws which are for the most part adequate to their purpose:
Dropping Like a Stone It might not feel as though the United States is appreciably safer, but both violent and property crimes have dropped steadily and substantially for nearly twenty years. Whether looking to “official” crime (reported to the police) or victimization surveys, the story is the same—both violent and property crimes have dropped like a stone. While crime rose throughout much of the 1960s and ‘70s, most of today’s college freshmen have not experienced a significant rise in the crime rate over the course of their lives. Spoiler
For all the talk about crime rates (technically, the number of offenses divided by the number of people or households in a given place and time to adjust for population changes), we only have good information about trends for a limited set of offenses—street crimes like murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, theft, auto theft, and arson. |
Nazaroo
New member
Another thing is we can learn from experiments in other countries:
Notice that here the Mayor of Cali was able to reduce gun death rates,
NOT by stricter gun laws, but by stricter control of the alcohol problem,
and this was done not by confiscating guns, but by installing curfews,
limiting alcohol sales to teens, and other powerful, relevant and effective measures.
One inspiring example comes from Cali, Colombia, and highlights the value of using data to identify risk factors for homicide. In the early 1990s, the mayor of Cali decided to use data to improve health outcomes in his city. A physician and epidemiologist by training, Dr. Rodrigo Guerrero Velasco set up a firearm death tracking system to identify different risk factors driving these trends. Guerrero Velasco and his colleagues found that more than half of Cali’s homicide victims were intoxicated. Also, analysis of the data revealed that homicides were more likely to involve young people and occur on holiday weekends, weekends following paydays, and election days. Based on these findings, Guerrero Velasco implemented several interventions to address these risk factors, such as limiting the hours alcohol could be sold, imposing curfews for individuals under 18 on the weekends, and imposing short-term gun bans on select weekends and election days when homicides were most likely to occur. According to an academic study based on an analysis of the city’s gun death database, homicides declined from a high of 124 per 100,000 in 1994 to 86 per 100,000 in 1997. Another study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association and co-authored by University of Washington epidemiologists found that homicide death rates were 14 percent lower than expected during periods when gun bans were imposed in Cali. Homicide rates in Cali, Colombia, 1983-1998 
Note: Figure taken from paper entitled “La epidemiología de los homicidios en Cali, 1993-1998: seis años de un modelo poblacional” published in the Pan American Journal of Public HealthIn 2011, Guerrero Velasco was re-elected to a second term as mayor of Cali. In a Sept. 15, 2015, article for Scientific American, Guerrero Velasco wrote that renewed efforts stemmed gun violence. “Cali’s homicide rate of 83 in 2012 dropped to 62 in 2014. This pattern has continued; the number of homicides in the first trimester of 2015 is less than in the same period in any of the past 12 years.” |
Notice that here the Mayor of Cali was able to reduce gun death rates,
NOT by stricter gun laws, but by stricter control of the alcohol problem,
and this was done not by confiscating guns, but by installing curfews,
limiting alcohol sales to teens, and other powerful, relevant and effective measures.
Nazaroo
New member
Another comparison would be between the USA and other South American countries.
It can be clearly seen that those countries are far more violent than the USA.
And again, these stats aren't '45 years old'...
It can be clearly seen that those countries are far more violent than the USA.
And again, these stats aren't '45 years old'...
Although the U.S. stands out for its high rates of homicide firearm deaths, its rates look small compared to certain Latin American countries. The following screen grab indicates that El Salvador, Colombia and Honduras had the highest rates of firearm homicides in the world in 2010. Firearm homicide rates in Latin America and the United States, 2010 
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I'm not sure what purpose Afghan/American comparisons serve given that the former is a tribal society that has been in a constant state of war for decades.Critics here want to claim that the statistics are 45 years out of date, and therefore 'wrong'.
In fact, newer statistics are available to illustrate all kinds of gun facts:
Firearm homicide rates in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the United States and Pakistan,
for the year 2010:
SInce the actual percentage of 'gun owners' in Afghanistan is lower than the USA,
the massively higher death rate must be explained other ways.
In the case of Afghanistan, both inadequate policing and a culture of gun violence
is a much better explanation of the high death rate than lawful ownership of guns.
But to say that for instance the ideologies and culture of the Middle East,
including ISLAM and its various sects is the real cause of gun violence would
not suit the ideas of Western liberals and socialists who are pro- big government
and anti- gun ownership.
In fact, the Near and Middle East have long served as the location of "proxy wars" representing American and the Russian interests with the local population being used as pawns.
zoo22
Well-known member
Well, I hope you're not looking to Nazaroo to explain what he's posting or why. He has no idea. Either that or he's intentionally avoiding posting a link to the article he's using infographics from because it's a pro-gun control piece.
Visualizing gun deaths: Comparing the US to rest of the world
The point of the graphic in the article (the context that Nazaroo conveniently left out) was to "compare gun homicide rates in the U.S. with countries that frequently make headlines for conflict-related violence (Afghanistan, Iraq, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Pakistan)."
Here's to Nazaroo for his relentless work this year pushing TOL to become such a bizarre parody of itself, of the religious right. It's fantastic.
zoo22
Well-known member
Another thing is we can learn from experiments in other countries:
One inspiring example comes from Cali, Colombia, and highlights the value of using data to identify risk factors for homicide. In the early 1990s, the mayor of Cali decided to use data to improve health outcomes in his city. A physician and epidemiologist by training, Dr. Rodrigo Guerrero Velasco set up a firearm death tracking system to identify different risk factors driving these trends. Guerrero Velasco and his colleagues found that more than half of Cali’s homicide victims were intoxicated. Also, analysis of the data revealed that homicides were more likely to involve young people and occur on holiday weekends, weekends following paydays, and election days.
Based on these findings, Guerrero Velasco implemented several interventions to address these risk factors, such as limiting the hours alcohol could be sold, imposing curfews for individuals under 18 on the weekends, and imposing short-term gun bans on select weekends and election days when homicides were most likely to occur. According to an academic study based on an analysis of the city’s gun death database, homicides declined from a high of 124 per 100,000 in 1994 to 86 per 100,000 in 1997. Another study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association and co-authored by University of Washington epidemiologists found that homicide death rates were 14 percent lower than expected during periods when gun bans were imposed in Cali.
Homicide rates in Cali, Colombia, 1983-1998
In 2011, Guerrero Velasco was re-elected to a second term as mayor of Cali. In a Sept. 15, 2015, article for Scientific American, Guerrero Velasco wrote that renewed efforts stemmed gun violence. “Cali’s homicide rate of 83 in 2012 dropped to 62 in 2014. This pattern has continued; the number of homicides in the first trimester of 2015 is less than in the same period in any of the past 12 years.”
Notice that here the Mayor of Cali was able to reduce gun death rates,
NOT by stricter gun laws, but by stricter control of the alcohol problem,
and this was done not by confiscating guns, but by installing curfews,
limiting alcohol sales to teens, and other powerful, relevant and effective measures.
Do you not understand what "homicide death rates were 14 percent lower than expected during periods when gun bans were imposed in Cali" means?
You're better suited to posting fake videos of Stanley Kubrick confessing to faking the moon landing. But it's really interesting watching who leaps on board with you when you post some complete nonsense they want to hear.
Hopefully, 2016 will see the absurdity here soar to even greater heights.
It seems safer being an American Soldier, fighting in wars, than it does to be an American citizen living in their own country.
Hello Nick M,
You can tell me to repent and give neg reps for the above, but it can't change these sad statistics.
Nazaroo
New member
you don't know how to read statistics.
Obviously the population of the USA is many times that of the army.
Therefore, your statistics are absurd unless you adjust them for the size of each population sample.
Nazaroo
New member
Also, did you notice that the chart in the "gun control" article contradicts
the data gathered for Wikipedia below?
Lets look again at the data in the "pro-gun control' article:
Oh look at that!
They left out:
Jamaica
Swaziland
El Salvador
Hondruras
Venezuela
Guatamala
Columbia
South Africa
Brazil
Panama
Uruguay
Mexico
Argentina
Montenegro
Paraguay
Nicaragua
The sixteen most deadly countries in the world,
all of which have higher gun homicide rates than the USA,
in spite of the fact that they have strict gun control laws
and far far fewer weapons per person.
the data gathered for Wikipedia below?
In What countries are you most likely to die by firearms?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...f_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate.jpg
Lets look again at the data in the "pro-gun control' article:
Oh look at that!
They left out:
Jamaica
Swaziland
El Salvador
Hondruras
Venezuela
Guatamala
Columbia
South Africa
Brazil
Panama
Uruguay
Mexico
Argentina
Montenegro
Paraguay
Nicaragua
The sixteen most deadly countries in the world,
all of which have higher gun homicide rates than the USA,
in spite of the fact that they have strict gun control laws
and far far fewer weapons per person.
Here are the data: Homicide rates in the U.S. and peer countries by weapon type, 2013 Spoiler
Source: Global Burden of Disease Study. Access the data visualization here: http://ihmeuw.org/3oi4 |
gcthomas
New member
I can't remember which thread it was in, but it turns out that being a combat soldier in Afghanistan was only twice as lethal as being a black teenager in New Orleans.
Nazaroo
New member
And you can further adjust that for the fact that only 10% of soldiers see combat,
while most are doing ordinary jobs in the supply lines and administration.