ECT Does 'fulfilled prophecy' reinforce the Bible?

steko

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We will see Jesus sitting on his throne in the sky.

Jesus is not going to sit on a throne from earth.

In fact, when the time comes for Jesus to live on the NEW earth with us---he will hand over the kingdom to the Father.

The promise of the seed from David is COMPLETE IN THAT HIS OWN SEED IS SITTING ON GOD's THRONE.

It is unbelievable that you cannot see it.

You link yourself with the unbelieving nations and the unbelieving 'people/Israel' when you set yourself against GOD's setting of His King Messiah Jesus on David's throne...Zion.

Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen[nations] rage, and the people[Israel] imagine a vain thing?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psa 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen[nations] for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
 

God's Truth

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You link yourself with the unbelieving nations and the unbelieving 'people/Israel' when you set yourself against GOD's setting of His King Messiah Jesus on David's throne...Zion.

Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen[nations] rage, and the people[Israel] imagine a vain thing?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psa 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen[nations] for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Jesus is ruling now. How do you ever get that means I do not believe? Ridiculous.
 

God's Truth

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1 Corinthians 15:28
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.​

All things have not been subdued unto Jesus yet.

All things HAVE been subdued unto him---we just do not see it yet.

Hebrews 2:8 and put everything under their feet." In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
All things HAVE been subdued unto him---we just do not see it yet.

Hebrews 2:8 and put everything under their feet." In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.
The Greek has some verb tenses that do not translate well into English.

Hebrews 2:8
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.​

The part highlighted uses the aroist tense

_____
The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations.
_____​

In other words, there is no indication of when all things are put in subjection under Jesus.
The verse could indicate it happened in the past, is happening in the present, or will happen in the future.

Since the last part of the verse says that we currently see that all things have not yet been put under Him, the first part (highlighted) is something that happens in the future.
 

steko

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Jesus is ruling now. How do you ever get that means I do not believe? Ridiculous.

You do not believe GOD's word to David that He will not alter His promise to him regarding his throne.

When GOD said this, David was on his throne ruling over all twelve tribes in the land.

You alter GOD's word and say that David's throne is the Father's throne in heaven, when 'David's throne' has always meant his place of rulership in Zion/Jerusalem.
You impose a foreign meaning to GOD's word.

David never ruled from a throne in heaven. David's throne is Jerusalem, the place which GOD chose for His name to be there perpetually.
 

Danoh

New member
Yes.

If it were not so then Jesus would be moving from His Heavenly Throne in the Heavenly Holy City to a throne in the earthly Jerusalem, while the overcomers remain in the Heavenly Throne without Him--

a real no no.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

LA

Fool - what part of "my throne" and "his throne" is not clear.

You trolls are all alike. You conclude the narrow view from where you sit under your bridge, is all there is.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
 

Danoh

New member
The Greek has some verb tenses that do not translate well into English.

Hebrews 2:8
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.​

The part highlighted uses the aroist tense

_____
The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations.
_____​

In other words, there is no indication of when all things are put in subjection under Jesus.
The verse could indicate it happened in the past, is happening in the present, or will happen in the future.

Since the last part of the verse says that we currently see that all things have not yet been put under Him, the first part (highlighted) is something that happens in the future.

Don't let this go to your head now (for we differ on much) - that was a proper use of another language.
 

Lazy afternoon

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Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post

Yes.

If it were not so then Jesus would be moving from His Heavenly Throne in the Heavenly Holy City to a throne in the earthly Jerusalem, while the overcomers remain in the Heavenly Throne without Him--

a real no no.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

LA


Fool - what part of "my throne" and "his throne" is not clear.

You trolls are all alike. You conclude the narrow view from where you sit under your bridge, is all there is.

You can not handle the truth, so you call the truth speakers, fools and trolls.

Christ now reigns over the House of God from Heavens Throne, from which Christ rules over all the earth in the future through His resurrected saints who will move about it among mankind before their final glorification with Him with all the saved when the Kingdom is handed to the Father that God will be ALL in ALL.

You may think you are so wise, but it is only the wisdom of men, which is foolish in Gods eyes and in the eyes of those who have the wisdom of God (His word).

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

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So, you come around and post the exact same Scriptures that I did and that's supposed to prove something?

Yes, it proves you give an interpretation of them which the Bible does not support throughout the whole book.

God does not have two peoples under different gospels and covenants.

If you are of the household of faith then Abraham is your kin.

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


LA
 

Tambora

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You do not believe GOD's word to David that He will not alter His promise to him regarding his throne.

When GOD said this, David was on his throne ruling over all twelve tribes in the land.

You alter GOD's word and say that David's throne is the Father's throne in heaven, when 'David's throne' has always meant his place of rulership in Zion/Jerusalem.
You impose a foreign meaning to GOD's word.

David never ruled from a throne in heaven. David's throne is Jerusalem, the place which GOD chose for His name to be there perpetually.
Yeppers.
 

Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post

You do not believe GOD's word to David that He will not alter His promise to him regarding his throne.

When GOD said this, David was on his throne ruling over all twelve tribes in the land.

You alter GOD's word and say that David's throne is the Father's throne in heaven, when 'David's throne' has always meant his place of rulership in Zion/Jerusalem.
You impose a foreign meaning to GOD's word.

David never ruled from a throne in heaven. David's throne is Jerusalem, the place which GOD chose for His
name to be there perpetually.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

LA
 

God's Truth

New member
The Greek has some verb tenses that do not translate well into English.

Hebrews 2:8
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.​

The part highlighted uses the aroist tense

_____
The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time. There is no direct or clear English equivalent for this tense, though it is generally rendered as a simple past tense in most translations.
_____​

In other words, there is no indication of when all things are put in subjection under Jesus.
The verse could indicate it happened in the past, is happening in the present, or will happen in the future.

Since the last part of the verse says that we currently see that all things have not yet been put under Him, the first part (highlighted) is something that happens in the future.

All things were put under him when he sat on the throne.

He even already conquered death.
 

God's Truth

New member
You do not believe GOD's word to David that He will not alter His promise to him regarding his throne.

When GOD said this, David was on his throne ruling over all twelve tribes in the land.

You alter GOD's word and say that David's throne is the Father's throne in heaven, when 'David's throne' has always meant his place of rulership in Zion/Jerusalem.
You impose a foreign meaning to GOD's word.

David never ruled from a throne in heaven. David's throne is Jerusalem, the place which GOD chose for His name to be there perpetually.

David's throne was a rule over Israel. Jesus is ruling over Israel.
 

steko

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LIFETIME MEMBER
David's throne was a rule over Israel. Jesus is ruling over Israel.

The logical fallacy of equivocation is committed when a term is used in two or more different senses within a single argument.

Israel is Biblically defined as the people which GOD delivered with a strong arm from slavery in Egypt, led them to the promised land, exiled them from that land and promises them a return to that land under Messiah.

Christ is the head of the body, the church which is a new creation composed of people from all nations and is not called Israel in the Bible.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.



David's throne is over the people of Israel in the land promised and Christ will take that throne at His second coming. Mt 25:31 when He sends His angels to gather His elect/chosen of Israel back to the land Mt 24:31.
 

God's Truth

New member
The logical fallacy of equivocation is committed when a term is used in two or more different senses within a single argument.

Israel is Biblically defined as the people which GOD delivered with a strong arm from slavery in Egypt, led them to the promised land, exiled them from that land and promises them a return to that land under Messiah.

Christ is the head of the body, the church which is a new creation composed of people from all nations and is not called Israel in the Bible.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.



David's throne is over the people of Israel in the land promised and Christ will take that throne at His second coming. Mt 25:31 when He sends His angels to gather His elect/chosen of Israel back to the land Mt 24:31.

Jesus made the two groups ONE.

You are badly mistaken.

Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,


There is NO difference between Jew and Gentile!
 
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