Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

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popsthebuilder

New member
Robert Pate said:
You missed the most important part of Romans 6:23.

"But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"

No one needs to be lost because salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

All that one has to do to be saved is to call upon the name of the Lord, Romans 10:13.
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Yet we find it written that many will say to the Lord upon judgement that they professed His name; yet He won't as much as hear their pleas on That Day.

Peace

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P

popsthebuilder

New member
Robert Pate said:
How many scriptures do you need to believe?

You have been brainwashed into believing that if it as not according to Calvinism its false, even if it is in the Bible.
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Show me from scripture that Faith isn't to be effectual in an individual's life.

Peace

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Grosnick Marowbe

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popsthebuilder said:
Yet we find it written that many will say to the Lord upon judgement that they professed His name; yet He won't as much as hear their pleas on That Day.

Peace

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Why not present those verses in this thread? If you're speaking about what's said in the four Gospels, it was being said to the House of Israel, not the Gentiles. So, show your proof beyond what was said to the Jews.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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popsthebuilder said:
And is Paul not a prisoner of the Christ now... as we speak? If you think faith without the production of works is acceptable to GOD when you indeed are an able bodied, rightly guided individual then you are mistaken. Is it not true that those of faith are held Moreno accountable as they have more potential for good or evil?

Peace

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What does "Moreno" mean?
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

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popsthebuilder said:
...could the Calvinist here refute this claim that Calvinists do not believe in free will?

And can any here provide evidence of free will in the new testament?

I know it was seen as a sacrifice or offering in Judaism in favor of following the direction of man ordained by GOD, but am curious as to others opinions.

Thanks in advance,

Peace

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Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter IX "Of Free Will."
Chapter IX

I. God has endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined good, or evil.

II. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.

III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

IV. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he does not perfectly, or only, will that which is good, but does also will that which is evil.

V. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to do good alone in the state of glory only.

The issue is not whether man has a free will, Calvinists would certainly argue that man does. The question is whether the free will is absolute or whether it has been damaged in the fall. Calvinists would usually hold that there are limitations on the exercise of one's free will, and further that the change from Adam's free will precludes any self-salvation. To argue that Adam fell on the basis of free will choice and action and so all can choose to be saved on the basis of free will choice is to ignore the fact that humanity was changed in the fall.

It seems to me that there is no good non-Calvinist anthropology which would make a free will self-salvation a viable belief system.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Brother Ducky said:
Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter IX "Of Free Will."

The issue is not whether man has a free will, Calvinists would certainly argue that man does. The question is whether the free will is absolute or whether it has been damaged in the fall. Calvinists would usually hold that there are limitations on the exercise of one's free will, and further that the change from Adam's free will precludes any self-salvation.

It seems to me that there is no good non-Calvinist anthropology which would make a free will self-salvation a viable belief system.
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That's why you're a Calvinist. Simple, huh?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter IX "Of Free Will."
Chapter IX

I. God has endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined good, or evil.

II. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.

III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

IV. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he does not perfectly, or only, will that which is good, but does also will that which is evil.

V. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to do good alone in the state of glory only.

The issue is not whether man has a free will, Calvinists would certainly argue that man does. The question is whether the free will is absolute or whether it has been damaged in the fall. Calvinists would usually hold that there are limitations on the exercise of one's free will, and further that the change from Adam's free will precludes any self-salvation. To argue that Adam fell on the basis of free will choice and action and so all can choose to be saved on the basis of free will choice is to ignore the fact that humanity was changed in the fall.

It seems to me that there is no good non-Calvinist anthropology which would make a free will self-salvation a viable belief system.
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The only thing that changed in the fall is that man lost his relationship with God. His free will is alive and well.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
popsthebuilder said:
Now, can you show from scripture that one must believe the trinitarian view( Father/son/ Holy Ghost are fully and utterly consubstantial and always have been) in order for salvation?
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Asked and answered.

If you don't have time to read the whole post, don't bother responding to it.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
popsthebuilder said:
I agree.

But they aren't contradicting one another. The fact that man has a will, does not negate the fact that GOD is all knowing.
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I don't understand what is happening. There are a half dozen of my posts which are now suddenly gone, including a rather detailed response to this post as well as several other from this thread and at least one other.

I despise having to type posts twice. I'll do it later - when I'm confortable that whatever work is being done of the site is complete and that this won't be happening again.
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter IX "Of Free Will."
Chapter IX

I. God has endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined good, or evil.

II. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.

III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

IV. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he does not perfectly, or only, will that which is good, but does also will that which is evil.

V. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to do good alone in the state of glory only.

The issue is not whether man has a free will, Calvinists would certainly argue that man does. The question is whether the free will is absolute or whether it has been damaged in the fall. Calvinists would usually hold that there are limitations on the exercise of one's free will, and further that the change from Adam's free will precludes any self-salvation. To argue that Adam fell on the basis of free will choice and action and so all can choose to be saved on the basis of free will choice is to ignore the fact that humanity was changed in the fall.

It seems to me that there is no good non-Calvinist anthropology which would make a free will self-salvation a viable belief system.
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now reread this everyone but read it more carefully...
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

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Banned
Arminianism is a works based salvation and relies on man own work on claiming they understand and accept God's salvation, and then tiptoe a line in hope that they never fall from His Grace, only to realize this is impossible thus beginning the cycle again.

It writes man as the author and protector if their own faith...
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
TulipBee said:
Arminianism is a works based salvation and relies on man own work on claiming they understand and accept God's salvation, and then tiptoe a line in hope that they never fall from His Grace, only to realize this is impossible thus beginning the cycle again.

It writes man as the author and protector if their own faith...
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What about the 8,000 Jews that heard the Gospel on the day of Pentecost and were converted to Christ? Acts 2:41 and Acts 4:4.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
What about the 8,000 Jews that heard the Gospel on the day of Pentecost and were converted to Christ? Acts 2:41 and Acts 4:4.
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They had been saved, so they could hear. A lost person can't believe the Gospel because it is hidden from them 2Cor 4:3-4
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Hall of Fame
TulipBee said:
Arminianism is a works based salvation and relies on man own work on claiming they understand and accept God's salvation, and then tiptoe a line in hope that they never fall from His Grace, only to realize this is impossible thus beginning the cycle again.

It writes man as the author and protector if their own faith...
Click to expand...

So, according to YOU, anyone who isn't of the "Calvinist persuasion" will be judged and cast into the "Lake of Fire" with the devil and his fallen angels, correct?
 
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