In conclusion: there is ONLY one God, represented by three different Entities. (For a lack of a better description.)
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
The unregenerate person will believe anything about God except that which has been clearly revealed in Scripture or in creation.
musterion
Well-known member
Because God hasn't enabled them to do so.
Today Calvinism is being subjected to constant attack. Several recent, popular, published critiques have tried to discredit John Calvin the man, or they have unfairly blamed Calvinism for the dubious politics of the Reformation era. But the doctrines of Calvinistic soteriology must stand or fall by the test of Scripture, period.*
Scripture speaks with absolute, unmistakable clarity on these vital issues: (1) Sinners are utterly helpless to redeem themselves or to contribute anything meritorious toward their own salvation (Rom 8:7-8). (2) God is sovereign in the exercise of His saving Will (Eph 1:4-5). (3) Christ died as a substitute who bore the full weight of God's wrath on behalf of His people, and his atoning work is efficacious for their salvation (Isa. 53:5). (4) God's saving purpose cannot be thwarted (John 6:37), meaning none of Christ's true sheep will ever be lost (John 10:27-29). That is because (5) God assures the perseverance of His elect (Jude 24; Phil 1:6; 1 Peter 1:5).*
Those are the five points of Calvinism. I believe them not because of their historical pedigree, but because that is what Scripture teaches. -John MacArthur
What does that mean??
popsthebuilder
New member
I agree wholly that the Word of GOD was with GOD before the creation of the earth. I agree wholly that GOD spoke creation into existence. I believe the trinity to be true. Though the spirit and word of GOD are coeternal and the man Jesus was ordained from time unmemorable, that doesn't make the man Jesus whom the spirit of GOD dwelled in wholly and fully also coeternal as a man.
That is all.
I do not deny the trinity.
Peace
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Stop being such a whiner.
The same way the Apostle John, John the Baptist and the Apostle Paul did (by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit)...
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’
Colossians 1:16 For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’
Colossians 1:16 For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Resting in Him,
Clete
popsthebuilder
New member
The Spirit and/ or Word of GOD was and is with GOD and of GOD. Yet not the utter fullness of GOD and by nature of or subsidiary or only partially represent GOD as human limits cannot witness the full countenance of GOD. The mind cannot fully grasp GOD. It is impossible for a finite limited thing to contain an eternal, limitless thing. Even the word thing is not capable of accurately describing it. Basically what I am trying to say is that though we can perceive the things of GOD as they pertain to what GOD has allowed us to see, none of us can know the fullness of GOD, or fully describe it. The trinity doctrine is simply a descriptor of the aspects of GOD. Using it as a basis of the substance of one's faith, either to edify or condemn, is just not a good idea. I'm glad that you agree that it isn't pertinent to salvation. To say that we, by the will of GOD, can perceive three aspects of GOD is fine. To say that there are three people or persons is flat out wrong. Even by the traditional trinitarian view; there is but one person, no people, that person is the Christ which is utterly without want for self, and only of the Spirit and Will of GOD; indeed spiritual and not of or worried about material gain or otherwise. That is the spirit of life. GOD is the Spirit of life. So describing GOD as persons or people (polytheistic), or the literal utter fullness of GOD in creation can too lead to grand misdirection, as can be seen in the faith alone doctrine, yet not that effectual faith.
Praise and thanks is to the Christ of GOD.
Sorry if long or choppy or laden with grammatical error. I have to work.
I do not mean to offend any in anyway, please, please show my error.
Peace
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I tried and it didn't work.
popsthebuilder
New member
No sir... You asked me to explain, and I tried in a hurry, and asked your knowledged opinion... please.?
Peace
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beloved57
Well-known member
You don't know ? That is even worse !
Then you agree that your Calvinist God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.
You have 0 faith in God and even less in his Son Jesus Christ.
Ask Mr. Religion
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While not incorrect, per se, the use of "entities" often leads to confusion as it usually implies, to the modern ear, mutually independent "beings", as in the Godhead comprises three separate and mutually independent beings. This is untrue. The three personal subsistences are each comprised of the one being and one essence of the one God.
The word subsistence literally means “to stand under.” Thus, this word gets at the idea that while God is one in essence, there are three subsistences—also called three persons—that stand under the essence. They are part of the essence. All three have the essence of deity.
Formally speaking, subsistence is the means of individuation of essence with respect to existence.
When defining person any such definition of "person" as relates to the Trinity must preserve the unity of God's being, include an element common to both the human and divine personality, and allows the impersonal human nature of Jesus.
We may say,
Person is an independent entity, indivisible, rational, incommunicable, not sustained by another nature but possessing in itself the principle of its operation.
Or, we may say,
The word, person, with reference to the Trinity, means the divine essence in a specific mode of existence and distinguished by this specific mode of existence from that essence and the other persons.
When we start to confuse the early church's use of the word "person" with our own notions of "person", we ultimately end up in some form of modalistic heresy. Given the baggage the word "person" carries in today's culture, I usually refer to the personal subsistences of the Godhead until everyone is on the same page related to how the word "person" is used in Trinitarian theological discourse. If we must insist on "person", then I tend to say that "A person is a distinct bearer of an essence, hence the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are distinct persons, each with His own personal attributes, while each also shares equally the attributes of deity (i.e., the divine essence)".
Thus, the divine essence does not exist independently along with the three Persons. The divine essence has no existence outside of and apart from the three Persons. For if the divine essence did, there would be no true unity, but a division that would lead into tri-theism.
The three persons (hypostaseis / prosopoi) co-inhering in the one divine nature (ousia) exist simultaneously with one another as distinct subsistences or persons. This means that the divine essence is not at one time entirely manifest as the Father (but not in or as the Son or Spirit), and then at another moment manifest exclusively as the Son, and yet again at another time solely as the Spirit. Rather, all three persons exist simultaneously, contrary to the preceding modalistic errors.
God’s essence is common to the three Persons of the Godhead, and God’s essence is not communicated from one Person to another Person. Each Person wholly partakes of the essence of God, possessing it as one undivided essence. Portions of the essence of God are not divided up to be enjoyed by each Person—as in one-third for the Father, one-third for the son, or one-third for the Spirit—instead the whole essence is enjoyed by each, as “in him the whole fullness of deity dwells” (Col. 2:9, also John 15:16).
For each subsistence in the divine essence, each of the Persons has a distinct subsistence, such that we can say that the Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son.
Nevertheless, we can make a distinction between the three persons of the Trinity, because each member of the Godhead has unique attributes. We say the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but we don’t say that the Father is the Son, the Son is the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit is the Father. There are distinctions between them, but the distinctions are not of the one essence of God. The distinctions are real, but they do not disturb the essence of deity.
AMR
The trinity is three persons in one.
They are all equal and are in perfect harmony with each other, However their works are different.
The Father remains in heaven.
The Son comes into the world as the savior.
The Holy Spirit magnifies the work of the Son and works in the life of the believer.
It is heresy to confuse the work of the trinity. The Father is not the savior, nor is the Holy Spirit the savior. Christ and Christ alone is the savior.
God does not save through predestination. When it comes to salvation, God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ. All things are done by and through Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:16-18. When it comes to the salvation of fallen man, it is Jesus Christ not God the Father that does the saving.
Jesus reconciles fallen man to God the Father by fulfilling the law and atoning for mans sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Reconciliation is worthless if it is not received by both parties. No one will be reconciled to God if they do not receive what Christ has done on their behalf.
With all due respect AMR, I have my way of writing and others have their way of writing. We don't always agree with one another's way of expressing/articulating our thoughts. Therefore, others may misinterpret what we're trying to convey. To my way of thinking, there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, yet, these three are ONE. As I've stated before, our finite minds are incapable of understanding the Trinity, therefore, we must resort to examples. Such as the "Egg example" etc. When Christ was in the Garden of Gethsemane, He was not praying to Himself, but, to the Father. When God the Father spoke audibly to Peter and the rest that they should "Listen to Him" (Meaning God the Son) there showed a separation of the Godhead, yet, at the same time, they were ONE. By faith, I accept the truth of the Godhead. There are three, yet, they comprise one God.
Good post.