Ask Knight if he really believes this? I dare ya.:chuckle:
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Ask Knight if he really believes this? I dare ya.:chuckle:
Christ does not recognize a church that does not recognize his authority as God.
Rosenritter
New member
How is that supposed to be relevant to any of this? At best you demonstrate that the verse which you just brought up can't be used as a proof on its own. Can you answer what has been put before you? We are NEVER called "Lord and God." You're not answering any of these points.
Rosenritter
New member
Can you rephrase your question please? I'm not sure what you're asking. The serpent on the pole was symbolic of Christ. He who obeyed to look upon him would be saved. The same that would slay them for their sins was also willing to forgive them their sins.
As for the first part(s) for you to continue to maintain that Jesus is not God you create a hundred contradictions within scripture. I haven't counted one hundred, but it's more in the ballpark than a mere 10 or 20. The Psalms name he who ascends to heaven as God. Thomas directly calls Jesus God. Jesus is worshiped. Jesus calls himself God in the gospels and Revelation. John calls Jesus God. Not just in one way which could be dismissed, but left and right and up and down and inside and out. Genesis says God created the heavens and the earth. The New Testament says Jesus created the heavens and the earth. This isn't that hard to connect!
marhig
Well-known member
revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
God has set Jesus in his throne because Jesus overcame!
marhig
Well-known member
It's relevant because I am pointing out that you can be at one with God, without being God!
Rosenritter
New member
... which does not contradict Jesus actually being God, and referring to God in heaven as "Father" while he is on earth in the flesh in the form of the "Son of God."
You continually keep coming back to the same claim which doesn't actually contradict anything. But God did say that he will not give his glory to another. I just realized I forgot to provide that quote.
Isaiah 42:8 KJV
(8) I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Yet Jesus uses the names of the LORD for himself in Revelation, and in the gospels he says that he has the same glory of God with God. And John says that in the beginning He who was become flesh and walked among us was God and created all things. I have never seen you answer these. You just keep saying "But Jesus said that God was his God!"
Rosenritter
New member
Which is irrelevant because I didn't put that forward as the claim. I did, however, have at least half a dozen other points woven together which could be addressed...
As a reminder, God is allowed to walk among us incognito, the Prince dressed as a Pauper. As the Son of God he is going to follow the same laws and rules that He set for us, and thus be obedient to God, his authority is derived from God, and God is his God. That is no contradiction.
But in contrast, if Jesus ever declared himself to be God, he is a blasphemer if he is not God. If Jesus accepted worship or did not correct those that called him God, that would make him an imposter. When Jesus calls himself by the very specific and elite reserved names and titles of God and says that he will be our God, there is no other wiggle room here. Jesus is either God or a blasphemer and a usurper.
Rosenritter
New member
Which remains true in metaphor. That still doesn't explain away that he who is sitting on that throne identifies himself both as God and Jesus. That can't be metaphorical, it would still be true or blasphemous.
Here, I'll try a different tack. Do you believe Jesus lacks qualifications to be God? If so, why? What defect do you find in him?
a) He created all things, the universe and all that was made, so he has experience
b) He was there when the devil was cast down from heaven, so he knows how to handle rebellions
c) He has judgment over all men, dead and alive
d) He has life in himself
e) He is perfect and without sin (and there is only one that is Good, that is, God)
f) He has all the names and titles of God from the Old Testament, including the Rock, the beginning and the end, the first and the last, the Mighty God, and the everlasting Father
g) he is loving and kind, and he has the power to forgive your sin (and who can forgive sin, but God alone?)
h) he was willing to be nailed to a tree to get your attention, that he might draw you and all men to him
i) we are praised when we worship him, he does not reject worship, the angels of God worship him (and it is written, that thou shalt worship only the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve)
What does he lack?
beloved57
Well-known member
Useless comment !
beloved57
Well-known member
Where does that verse say Jesus is not God ?
marhig
Well-known member
He doesn't lack anything, but everything he has, has been given to him by the father, and as he says himself, without the father I can do nothing. And he said, the father is greater than I.
Your seeing Christ as God, I'm seeing God in Christ.
I don't have to believe that Jesus is God to belong to God, and you don't have to agree with me. I believe that God wants our hearts right before him first and foremost and he wants us to have complete faith in him and to follow Jesus.
musterion
Well-known member
Invalid post!
musterion
Well-known member
No suprise. That's exactly what a Roman Catholic at heart would believe.
popsthebuilder
New member
Could you reference scripture stating such please?
Thank you.
Peace
Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
popsthebuilder
New member
popsthebuilder
New member
I'm sorry you feel that way sir.
Please; don't pity me.
If you have noted obvious flaw in my words tongue point where you pity me then perhaps you could simply correct my ignorance.
Peace
Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
I call your attention to Post #3431 where you stated the following: "Not the prideful who claims the anointed of GOD is too the utter equivalent to the GOD who begot Him?" You don't seem to believe that Christ is part of the Godhead? Where in fact, He is, God the Son who created all that we see from the beginning of creation. Christ was born into this world as a man, however, before that, He existed in Heaven with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Genesis 1:26 states: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Notice the plurality in that verse? That speaks of the Trinity. (Three separate Entities, yet, they are ONE.)It's difficult for our finite minds to comprehend, therefore, humanity makes an effort to explain the Trinity in many different ways. Example: "the Egg has a yoke, outer fluid, and a shell, yet, the three make up "one Egg." That's only one example, however, there are numerous others.
John 1:1-3 states: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Those verses let us know that it was Christ (The Word) that created all that there is.
Notice the plurality in that verse? That speaks of the Trinity. (Three separate Entities, yet, they are ONE.)It's difficult for our finite minds to comprehend, therefore, humanity makes an effort to explain the Trinity in many different ways. Example: "the Egg has a yoke, outer fluid, and a shell, yet, the three make up "one Egg." That's only one example, however, there are numerous others.
John 1:1-3 states: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Those verses let us know that it was Christ (The Word) that created all that there is.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have ALWAYS been and always will be. The Trinity is real. The proof of its existence just isn't encapsulated within one particular verse of Scripture.