Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[Faither]

The words the English language is missing for the verb form of Faith or what was needed for the tranalators to translate "pisteuo" are , faithe, faither, and faithing.

I've shared some good back ground with you, now lets get down to the nuts and bolts of what true faithand faithing is.

I read a post a couple of days ago here, and it stated that "faith is not in mans nature." My blood boiled, because thats basically all we are.

With the definition of Faithing (pisteuo) being, "An action , based upon a belief, sustained by confidence." How many times in a day do we do that? We probably perform a 100 acts of faith before we get in our car to drive to work. Everything we do is an act of faithing or pisteuo. When we get out of bed in the morning, do we check to make sure our legs work, or that the floor will hold us up when we stand on it? Do we check our blood pressure to make sure it won't give out before we make it the the bathroom? These are all acts of faith, the verb.

Now, theres a difference between the thousands of acts of faithing we perform all day long and what "NT Faithing is".

NT faithing or "pisteuo" in the Greek is a specific act. This act had to be available before Gods Word right, Gods Word wasn't being written for public consumption until the 1500's. And for us who do have Gods Word, Faithing has to be something that has nothing to do with Gods Word. That may hit you wrong but hear me out.

Rom. 8:9 defines a foundational state of being that we are all bound to, and reads. "And if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, He is none of his."

Now, we all start out in the beginning in this state. We do not have the Spirit of Christ, so Christ is not ours. I will take it one step further and say, if Christs Spirit is not ours, and if Christ is not ours, then His Word can't be ours either. So "believing in Gods Word to receive His Spirit is impossible because Gods Word is not ours in the binning of our walk yet. That is why i said Nt faithing has to be something that God accepts, that is not tied to His Word.

The answer, is in the Greek dictionary. Pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him, and a conduct inspired by such surrender."

Nt faith and faithiong is a continual surrendering of our lives to Him, and a life inspired by that surrender. This means, that when we make our first surrender to Him, He watches us to see if we back up that surrender with evidence that we really mean what we have done. Every little decision we make during every day tells God that we really have surrendered our life to Him. And that daily continual surrender is the life of faith that has been lost to time. The trust that todays church world stands on, "trusting that God will do what He said He would do in His Word", is not saving faith and will result in nothing. Nt faithing is in a real person.

Christ is formed in our hearts by Faith, by a continual surrendering of our lives to Him, and a conduct inspired by that surrender. When Christ comes into our hearts, not by some kind of perfect daily surrendering, but by a genuine continual surrendering of our life and will to Him , His Spirit will be sealed in us. If we have the Spirit of Christ, we have the "mind of Christ", nobody has a clue what that means or feels like. Yet everyone has the spirit of christ because of a moment of "belief".

Thats just not true.

Was this the direction you thought i was going Pops? I look forward to your reply.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Clete,

To change your mind is to have made a mistake in some form whether directly or due to lack of perception. I personally cannot justify claiming that GOD is capable of making a mistake.

The things I've been taught have been through much introspection, self afflicted pain and suffering, over 25 years of atheism and finally and most of all personal revelation/ help from GOD. A life of relative continued solitude in comparison to the societal norm has left much time to contemplate things. I wasn't taught from indoctrination or Tue traditions of man or any sacred text. I have an exceedingly unbiased view in most cases and strive to identify and remove self deceit at all intervals. So yes, I have thought through what I know to be true.

You seem to be conflating the misdirection of man with the change in the Will of GOD. Times change, and with them man's understanding and needs. The Will of GOD for man had never changed.

I know there is no such thing as chance because I was shown that all relevant things that had happened to me to effect me throughout my young life had not been chance but for reasons or rather, a means to an end. I was shown that through all the experiences not only was I not alone and not lost, but had to go through those things. Why not trusting look up scientific proof or evidence for chance or coincidence; you won't find any. The closest thing is mathematical equations that at first glance seem to produce random numbers but actually show a pattern.

Our actions and words do have consequences, no doubt, but to say that everything happens for a reason doesn't mean GOD is unjust, and to surmise such based on our limited knowledge, intellect and existence seems exceedingly prideful. We can't know everything or conclude what makes GOD unjust.

GOD is without limit in knowledge, power, and benevolence. Just because we can't conceive a thing doesn't mean the creator of all existence can't. I mean, we're talking about something that created or formed all known existence. Do you really think that the laws that bind that existence pertain to what formed them and it?

That is vanity. Not on your part specifically, just in general.

So how does GOD ordaining the elect to guide the sheep equal GOD being unjust? I could see if the electric were chosen to lead all to eternal hell, but that isn't the case is it? So how does it make GOD unjust?

I said nothing about universalism. What I meant was eternal hell isn't biblical due to the misuse and mistranslation of Gehena and Sheol if I'm not mistaken.


I don't believe in universalism but I do believe in universal reconciliation.

Your turn.

Peace



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[popsthebuilder]

Incontrovertibly question begging nonsense!

You don't get to presuppose the truth of your doctrine so as to use it to argue the truth of your doctrine.

God doesn't know everything in advance.


Outstanding examples of what I was referring to when I said that Calvinists read their doctrine into the text.
The quotation here ignores what is being talked about as well as ignore the many times throughout the bible where it explicitly says that God does/has/did change His mind and might do so again!

Here's just a sample...

Jeremiah 18:18 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 2 “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause you to hear My words.” 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the Lord. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will repent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will repent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.

Jeremiah 19:5 (they have also built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or speak, nor did it come into My mind),

Isaiah 5:3
“And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah,
Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard.
4 What more could have been done to My vineyard
That I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes?​

Resting in Him,
Clete

Again you seem to be focusing on the misdirection of man, the consequences for that misdirection, and free will.

Though you may not be able to fathom how we have the gift of free will yet all is ordained; that doesn't make it impossible.what is free will to us is known to GOD prior to our conception.



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[popsthebuilder]

I'm not offended in the slightest, just emphatic.

If Jesus wasn't God the plan of salvation doesn't work in the first place. Secondly the same authors that teach that Jesus died for our sin are the same authors that teach that Jesus was the Creator of the Universe. You can't reject one without undermining the other.

Resting in Him,
Clete

So your not going to actually answer my question are you?



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[popsthebuilder]

Was this the direction you thought i was going Pops? I look forward to your reply.

For the most part.

You kinda lost me at the end but I think I get the gist of it. Basically like faith without works is dead. And real faith is actually effectual in all the faithful does.

Other than that you seemed to be ousting the "church" for their misrepresentation and misdirection in regards to faith.

I cannot deny any of those things.

Peace

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[Faither]

For the most part.

You kinda lost me at the end but I think I get the gist of it. Basically like faith without works is dead. And real faith is actually effectual in all the faithful does.

Other than that you seemed to be ousting the "church" for their misrepresentation and misdirection in regards to faith.

I cannot deny any of those things.

Peace

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Understanding what the "mind of Christ" does when someone has it is one of the only things that one can't go into the Word of God and parrot. One has to actually have the experience to understand it.

Thanks for your ear Pops. May God continue to draw you.

 

[TulipBee]

 

[TulipBee]

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Thanks for your motivational words friend.

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Yeah, he's a regular Joel Osteen type.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The fact that they even hurl that notion around tells you all you need to know- a bunch of Bible thumpers who give birth to false prophets every time something bad happens in the world. They act like they have the decoder ring to it all, and ironically condemn others for 'trying to know as God'.

Give
me
a
break

How about we give you a "50" year break?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Taking all that invaluable Calvinist literature and making a remarkably stupid conclusion to it all-
it really sums up the posters on here, who call the Reformed tradition a 'cult'..
The Reformation is the only reason you even have religious liberty you pretentious idiot.

You=:rotfl:

 

[Crucible]

Props to the guy on top of the support beam.

 

[Clete]

Again you seem to be focusing on the misdirection of man, the consequences for that misdirection, and free will.

Though you may not be able to fathom how we have the gift of free will yet all is ordained; that doesn't make it impossible.what is free will to us is known to GOD prior to our conception.

Is it your intent to suggest that two contradictory truth claims can both be true?

Or is it that we are unable to tell whether two truth claims actually contradict each other?

Those two things are functionally the same thing, by the way. Whichever one you pick, at the end, you're left with having to disregard the law of contradiction. Is that what you intended to be saying?

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

So your not going to actually answer my question are you?

What are you talking about? What have I been doing if not answering it? This thread is not about the deity of Christ. I made a biblical argument for it but I'm not going to spend two hours writing up a detailed proof of it on a thread about the unjust god of Calvinism. What more do you want me to say about it?

 

[Clete]

Just what is your point here?

That is a blasphemous image.

God would have saved every one of those people had they believed Noah and entered the Ark before it was too late. In fact, had a sufficient number of them repented, He would have repented of the disaster that He had intended and would not have flooded the world at all.

 

[Clete]

Three things, you blasphemous fool!

First, physical death is not the equivalent of being sent to Hell. There is no injustice in one's Creator taking you from this life to the next. It's sending you to an eternal Hell for sins you didn't choose to do that would be unjust. - DUH!

Secondly, God would have saved anyone who had believed Noah's "gospel", which was, "Hey! God is going to flood the whole place out and start again because the whole world has turned against Him and seeks only after evil. Repent and come with on this boat and save your lives!" No one chose to repent and so they all got to swim for a living.

Third, God wiped out everyone but Noah and his family because he was still pure human. Several demons had been mating with human women and polluting the human race. If God was going to provide a sacrifice for sin, He would need a pure-blood human sacrifice and thus had to not only put a stop to the demons doing this but also had to remove the polluted blood lines from the race or else a savior would have become impossible - even for God.



Let this blasphemous idiot serve as warning to everyone as well as proof of my repeated claim that Calvinists willingly and willfully disregard justice in favor of their core doctrines. Calvinism seriously makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Three things, you blasphemous fool!

First, physical death is not the equivalent of being sent to Hell. There is no injustice in one's Creator taking you from this life to the next. It's sending you to an eternal Hell for sins you didn't choose to do that would be unjust. - DUH!

Secondly, God would have saved anyone who had believed Noah's "gospel", which was, "Hey! God is going to flood the whole place out and start again because the whole world has turned against Him and seeks only after evil. Repent and come with on this boat and save your lives!" No one chose to repent and so they all got to swim for a living.

Third, God wiped out everyone but Noah and his family because he was still pure human. Several demons had been mating with human women and polluting the human race. If God was going to provide a sacrifice for sin, He would need a pure-blood human sacrifice and thus had to not only put a stop to the demons doing this but also had to remove the polluted blood lines from the race or else a savior would have become impossible - even for God.



Let this blasphemous idiot serve as warning to everyone as well as proof of my repeated claim that Calvinists willingly and willfully disregard justice in favor of their core doctrines. Calvinism seriously makes me sick to my stomach.

Matthew: 5. 22. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Just saying.

Peace

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[TulipBee]

Three things, you blasphemous fool!

First, physical death is not the equivalent of being sent to Hell. There is no injustice in one's Creator taking you from this life to the next. It's sending you to an eternal Hell for sins you didn't choose to do that would be unjust. - DUH!

Secondly, God would have saved anyone who had believed Noah's "gospel", which was, "Hey! God is going to flood the whole place out and start again because the whole world has turned against Him and seeks only after evil. Repent and come with on this boat and save your lives!" No one chose to repent and so they all got to swim for a living.

Third, God wiped out everyone but Noah and his family because he was still pure human. Several demons had been mating with human women and polluting the human race. If God was going to provide a sacrifice for sin, He would need a pure-blood human sacrifice and thus had to not only put a stop to the demons doing this but also had to remove the polluted blood lines from the race or else a savior would have become impossible - even for God.



Let this blasphemous idiot serve as warning to everyone as well as proof of my repeated claim that Calvinists willingly and willfully disregard justice in favor of their core doctrines. Calvinism seriously makes me sick to my stomach.

arminianism is blasphemous. "WITHOUT CHRIST WE CAN DO NOTHING! That Nothing is not a little something."
—RC Sproul (Sovereignty of God on Salvation)

A god who is all love, all grace, all mercy, no sovereignty, no justice, no holiness, and no wrath is an idol. —@RCSproul

The Holy Spirit has to change a person’s heart before he will ever say "yes" to Jesus.

If left to ourselves, in our spiritual deadness, we would never incline ourselves to the things of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

God's purpose in the Old Testament was to bring forth a nation and a people from whom the savior of the world would come.

The people of the earth had become so corrupt that it would have perverted the line from which Christ would have come. That was God's purpose in the flood.

But knowing you, you just want to believe that God is a sinner like you.

 

[Clete]

Matthew: 5. 22. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Just saying.

Peace

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"without a cause"