Do the Angels in Heaven Have a FREE WILL?

intojoy

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They were created in a state of unconfirmed holiness Pate. How many times must we go thru this man?
Once they chose to follow Dayan they were confirmed in sin and those who did not fall were confirmed in righteousness and neither now has the capacity to either do righteousness (demons) nor to sin (Angels)
 

popsthebuilder

New member
The angels that are in heaven have no free will. Their will is that of GOD's will.

Peace

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Nanja

Well-known member
Then how did Satan ever rebell?


It was God's Will!

Job 23:13-14
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

~~~~~
 

patrick jane

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They were created in a state of unconfirmed holiness Pate. How many times must we go thru this man?
Once they chose to follow Dayan they were confirmed in sin and those who did not fall were confirmed in righteousness and neither now has the capacity to either do righteousness (demons) nor to sin (Angels)
Where is that in the Bible, you joker -
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
I'm not speaking of the third of the angels or watchers that were cast out.

I was speaking of now.

Peace

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Angels have free will: at any time unless they sin...

Angels worship GOD:
Hebrews 1:6 points out that angels worship the Lord. We also see the heavenly host praising God in Luke 2:13–14. Robotic praise and worship is a parody of the real thing and worthless in heaven.When you put on a dvd and listen to a worship song singing praises to GOD, do you think or allude to the dvd as worshipping? Of course you don't.

Some angels are elect:

1 Timothy 5:21 - I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels. implying the fallen angels are demons and the people of the evil one, the tares, sown into the world by the devil. IF angels can choose to sin and become demons, they can also choose to be holy and work for GOD.

Angels are holy:
Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels. This verse contrasts the of evil of men with the holiness, that is, the righteousness of angels, not just their consecration to GOD. Robotic holiness is a farce...a stone cannot sin but it is not righteous and a robot neither can be holy, that is, in the context of this verse, righteous. As well, Satan's fall is proof of his free will as he is not guilty of anything if he is a robot...

Angels have emotions such as love, joy, desire, sadness, pride, and anger:
Luke 15:10 indicates that angels are joyous when one person repents. The devil has great wrath in Revelation 12:12. The angels and the devil have desires (1 Peter 1:12; John 8:44). Why would anyone create a robotic group with emotions to drive them when HIS will is all that is necessary to drive them? Robotic emotions??? Surely only people have emotions...

Angels are Persons in the image of GOD:
In the resurrection, man will be as the angels of God.
Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. In the resurrection, man is restored to the image of God in which he was created. The angels of God must, therefore, bear the image of God.

The image of GOD cannot contain sin therefore for man to be a sinner, the image must be broken. In the resurrection we will be restored to the full image of GOD and like the angels as this verse hints, who therefore must also be in HIS image.

When did they receive the image of God unless it was in creation?

The image of GOD? I think it means things like personhood that is, self awareness, intelligence, emotional ability, curiosity and creativity and the ability to make true free will decisions. Emotions are further proof of their personhood in the image of GOD. Therefore any being that fits this description fits the image of GOD...

Not only does the ability to worship, to praise, to be elect and to be holy imply personhood, they also imply they have free will and if you combine free will with election of some and the fall of others, you get angels going through an Adam like choice with some staying holy and satan and his crew choosing that which made them evil in HIS sight.

My concept is that all people created in HIS image were created as ingenuous innocent with the potential, ability and opportunity to choose to become perfectly good/holy or perfectly /eternally evil and we had to choose to accept GOD and HIS life for us in heaven to fulfill our potential to be perfectly good. Our fall into sin delayed the fulfillment of that potential by making it impossible to fulfill without grace. Our redemption is a restoration to the potential and the sanctified new creation is the fully realized fulfillment of HIS purpose for our creation in us.
 
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ttruscott

Well-known member
It was God's Will!

Job 23:13-14
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

~~~~~
My verse trumps your verses so you need to readjust what you think they should be applied: James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
They were created in a state of unconfirmed holiness Pate.

NO one was created in a state of holiness which is a complete and perfect accord with GOD and HIS nature and purposes for eternity by their own free will. A state of unending sinlessness due to the nature of your creation is NOT HOLINESS but rather...a rock.

Everyone created in HIS image was created with a free will and the ability and the opportunity to chose to become either perfectly eternally righteous OR to chose to become perfectly eternally evil...that is, in a state of ingenuous innocence.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
NO one was created in a state of holiness which is a complete and perfect accord with GOD and HIS nature and purposes for eternity by their own free will. A state of unending sinlessness due to the nature of your creation is NOT HOLINESS but rather...a rock.

Everyone created in HIS image was created with a free will and the ability and the opportunity to chose to become either perfectly eternally righteous OR to chose to become perfectly eternally evil...that is, in a state of ingenuous innocence.


Very well said, To be truly human is to have a free will. God does not create robots.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov;4808056 said:
Angels have no will, they only have the ability to perform the one and only job that they were created to perform.

Anyone or anything that has the ability to sin against God has a free will.

You don't have to go to the seminary to understand that.
 
The things that most people call "angels" are nothing more than constructs, or emenations of God's will. They are nothing more than God's thoughts put into action to serve a purpose. They are not any kind of being with any kind of identity.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
Angels have free will: at any time unless they sin...

Angels worship GOD:
Hebrews 1:6 points out that angels worship the Lord. We also see the heavenly host praising God in Luke 2:13–14. Robotic praise and worship is a parody of the real thing and worthless in heaven.When you put on a dvd and listen to a worship song singing praises to GOD, do you think or allude to the dvd as worshipping? Of course you don't.

Some angels are elect:

1 Timothy 5:21 - I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels. implying the fallen angels are demons and the people of the evil one, the tares, sown into the world by the devil. IF angels can choose to sin and become demons, they can also choose to be holy and work for GOD.

Angels are holy:
Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels. This verse contrasts the of evil of men with the holiness, that is, the righteousness of angels, not just their consecration to GOD. Robotic holiness is a farce...a stone cannot sin but it is not righteous and a robot neither can be holy, that is, in the context of this verse, righteous. As well, Satan's fall is proof of his free will as he is not guilty of anything if he is a robot...

Angels have emotions such as love, joy, desire, sadness, pride, and anger:
Luke 15:10 indicates that angels are joyous when one person repents. The devil has great wrath in Revelation 12:12. The angels and the devil have desires (1 Peter 1:12; John 8:44). Why would anyone create a robotic group with emotions to drive them when HIS will is all that is necessary to drive them? Robotic emotions??? Surely only people have emotions...

Angels are Persons in the image of GOD:
In the resurrection, man will be as the angels of God.
Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. In the resurrection, man is restored to the image of God in which he was created. The angels of God must, therefore, bear the image of God.

The image of GOD cannot contain sin therefore for man to be a sinner, the image must be broken. In the resurrection we will be restored to the full image of GOD and like the angels as this verse hints, who therefore must also be in HIS image.

When did they receive the image of God unless it was in creation?

The image of GOD? I think it means things like personhood that is, self awareness, intelligence, emotional ability, curiosity and creativity and the ability to make true free will decisions. Emotions are further proof of their personhood in the image of GOD. Therefore any being that fits this description fits the image of GOD...

Not only does the ability to worship, to praise, to be elect and to be holy imply personhood, they also imply they have free will and if you combine free will with election of some and the fall of others, you get angels going through an Adam like choice with some staying holy and satan and his crew choosing that which made them evil in HIS sight.

My concept is that all people created in HIS image were created as ingenuous innocent with the potential, ability and opportunity to choose to become perfectly good/holy or perfectly /eternally evil and we had to choose to accept GOD and HIS life for us in heaven to fulfill our potential to be perfectly good. Our fall into sin delayed the fulfillment of that potential by making it impossible to fulfill without grace. Our redemption is a restoration to the potential and the sanctified new creation is the fully realized fulfillment of HIS purpose for our creation in us.
I like your concept. I really do. It actually sounds really close to what I hold true.

But I still don't see the angels that are with GOD now as having a will separate from GOD's will. Again, it is obvious that the angels that were cast out had a will other than what GOD intended for them to have. They must have had some level of freedom in order to go against the direction of GOD, but it doesn't follow that Angels near to GOD, and Holy, also have the desire to go against the will of GOD.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
I like your concept. I really do. It actually sounds really close to what I hold true.

But I still don't see the angels that are with GOD now as having a will separate from GOD's will. Again, it is obvious that the angels that were cast out had a will other than what GOD intended for them to have. They must have had some level of freedom in order to go against the direction of GOD, but it doesn't follow that Angels near to GOD, and Holy, also have the desire to go against the will of GOD.

In accord with HIS will can mean:
Love your GOD and do anything! It does not necessarily mean HE has a plan for every second that we must agree to. If we are holy and if we can create our own actions then holiness says our actions must be in accord with HIMself.

Not separate from GOD's will might mean HE brings us into accord with HIS desires at every moment..or it might mean that we chose only those desires that ARE in accord with HIS will to bring into action! Free will refers to who is choosing the action without being forced to choose one way or the other. :)
 

popsthebuilder

New member

In accord with HIS will can mean:
Love your GOD and do anything! It does not necessarily mean HE has a plan for every second that we must agree to. If we are holy and if we can create our own actions then holiness says our actions must be in accord with HIMself.

Not separate from GOD's will might mean HE brings us into accord with HIS desires at every moment..or it might mean that we chose only those desires that ARE in accord with HIS will to bring into action! Free will refers to who is choosing the action without being forced to choose one way or the other. :)
I agree

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov;4808061 said:
The things that most people call "angels" are nothing more than constructs, or emenations of God's will. They are nothing more than God's thoughts put into action to serve a purpose. They are not any kind of being with any kind of identity.

Where do you see that in the Bible?

The Bible is full of the acts of Angels.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
I'm sorry, but that simply makes no sense. Heaven should be a place of perfection, where rebellion isn't possible. How could the angels have possibly rebelled? I don't know why I didn't think of this before now. And then you throw a few million or billion people into Heaven and then expect they'll behave like angels (pun intended) when even the angels rebelled, and supposedly rebelled before Adam and Eve supposedly walked in the garden. So the angels rebelled before there was ever such a concept as original sin. The entire rebellion narrative makes no sense. And all these people for all these millennia walking around thinking they were born already marked with original sin and they were doomed from the start unless they were saved.

This...

Why would any angel want to rebel in the first place? What were they unhappy about? What wasn't perfect?
 
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