ECT Did the Body of Christ Really Begin in Acts 2?

[heir]

She dodged my question of how Paul wishing to impart a spiritual gift to strengthen there confidence of being in Christ, means they aren't in him.

I didn't dodge your question. And this is the first time I've been here since I posted last. Also, if you'd think you would realize that if the Romans had never heard the gospel of Christ, they could not be in the Body. Paul longed to see them that he may impart to them some spiritual gift to the end they may be established. Anyone who rightly divides the word of truth knows that it is the gospel of Christ that establishes the believer into the Body. If they had a need to be established by the preaching of the gospel of Christ, they weren't in it at the time Paul wrote the letter :duh: It's all there in black and white!

 

[Danoh]

Sure you do.

You assert that Paul issues tickets to the body of Christ and in order to do that you have to make Jesus a liar when he said nobody comes to me except the Father draw him.

Those who know truth know only the Father issues those.

Now run to the false trinity doctrine to say Jesus is God to save your ego.

That poor child in that picture in your avatar; looks like it's worn out from repeatedly responding to you with "Oy vay!" lol

In short, take a chill pill. No ego here. We just differ in our understanding on some things.

 

[heir]

Now all you have to see is that we are all one body in Israel.

We (the "ye" of Ephesians 1:13 KJV which includes the Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians) are fellowheirs and of the same Body (Ephesians 3:6 KJV) with those who first trusted in Christ (Ephesians 1:12 KJV) beginning with the apostle Paul (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV) and including the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Thessalonians.

Israel has a future (Matthew 19:28 KJV, 1 Peter 2:9 KJV).

We are not they!

 

[ClimateSanity]

I didn't dodge your question. And this is the first time I've been here since I posted last. Also, if you'd think you would realize that if the Romans had never heard the gospel of Christ, they could not be in the Body. Paul longed to see them that he may impart to them some spiritual gift to the end they may be established. Anyone who rightly divides the word of truth knows that it is the gospel of Christ is what establishes the believer into the Body. If they had a need top be established by the preaching of the gospel of Christ, they weren't in it at the time Paul wrote the letter :duh: It's all there in black and white!

It's surprising then that it's supposedly a minority view within mid Acts.

 

[heir]

It is interesting to see your view differs although you say that Romans out of the body is the minority I think in this site from what I gather it is in the majority for Mid-Acts.

I believe the Romans became members of the Body of Christ as God foreknew them (Romans 8:28-30 KJV, Romans 11:5 KJV). I just don't think they were at the writing of Romans.

 

[heir]

It's surprising then that it's supposedly a minority view within mid Acts.

There is no one spokesperson for "MAD". So I'm not sure why some are hell bent on dividing us into majority and minority. We are all in the same one Body.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I didn't dodge your question. And this is the first time I've been here since I posted last. Also, if you'd think you would realize that if the Romans had never heard the gospel of Christ, they could not be in the Body. Paul longed to see them that he may impart to them some spiritual gift to the end they may be established. Anyone who rightly divides the word of truth knows that it is the gospel of Christ is what establishes the believer into the Body. If they had a need top be established by the preaching of the gospel of Christ, they weren't in it at the time Paul wrote the letter :duh: It's all there in black and white!

Lol, you better go back and catch up on some reading.

Since you've been gone the truth has now been put in black and white.

Check it out, it's all there!

 

[steko]

It is interesting to see your view differs although you say that Romans out of the body is the minority I think in this site from what I gather it is in the majority for Mid-Acts. Now all you have to see is that we are all one body in Israel.

Imposing definitions on the Scriptures again, I see.

Jacob was born to Isaac.
Jacob's name was changed to Israel.
Israel had twelve sons which became the twelve tribes of Israel.
King David ruled over the twelve tribes in the land, also known as Israel.
Solomon sat on David's throne over the same.
Under Solomon's son Rehaboam, the tribes were divided into two kingdoms, called the House of Israel in the north and the house of Judah in the south.
Nevertheless in some places in the prophets, GOD still refers to 'the whole house of Israel', or 'the whole house of Jacob' or the family/Israel which He brought out of Egypt.
He also speaks of a time when the northern ten/Ephraim, will be reunited with the southern two, Judah, thus a restored Israel/ten tribes under the promised Davidic Messaiah.
When the Lord Jesus came, He ministered to what He called 'Israel', which were the people, largely descended from the Southern Kingdom which had returned to the land under Ezra and Nehemiah, but here and there were those of the other tribes.
The terms Jew and Israel had become largely synonymous by the time of the Lord's ministry.
The Lord's church, His body is not called Israel any where in the scriptures, for that matter, it is called a new creation, a new entity, not even called a nation, but an entity composed from all nations, including some from the Jews/Israel.
To call believing Gentiles by the terms Israel or Jew is twist the plain definitions put forth in Scripture.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

There is no one spokesperson for "MAD". So I'm not sure why some are hell bent on dividing us into majority and minority. We are all in the same one Body.

Yer imaginary body is only accessed through Paul, that's why it's imaginary.:think:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Imposing definitions on the Scriptures again, I see.

Jacob was born to Isaac.
Jacob's name was changed to Israel.
Israel had twelve sons which became the twelve tribes of Israel.
King David ruled over the twelve tribes in the land, also known as Israel.
Solomon sat on David's throne over the same.
Under Solomon's son Rehaboam, the tribes were divided into two kingdoms, called the House of Israel in the north and the house of Judah in the south.
Nevertheless in some places in the prophets, GOD still refers to 'the whole house of Israel', or 'the whole house of Jacob' or the family/Israel which He brought out of Egypt.
He also speaks of a time when the northern ten/Ephraim, will be reunited with the southern two, Judah, thus a restored Israel/ten tribes under the promised Davidic Messaiah.
When the Lord Jesus came, He ministered to what He called 'Israel', which were the people, largely descended from the Southern Kingdom which had returned to the land under Ezra and Nehemiah, but here and there were those of the other tribes.
The terms Jew and Israel had become largely synonymous by the time of the Lord's ministry.
The Lord's church, His body is not called Israel any where in the scriptures, for that matter, it is called a new creation, a new entity, not even called a nation, but an entity composed from all nations, including some from the Jews/Israel.
To call believing Gentiles by the terms Israel or Jew is twist the plain definitions put forth in Scripture.

You better go back a few pages too, maybe you'll learn why Israel is the great congregation.

The only body of Christ Paul was talkin' about.

 

[Danoh]

Imposing definitions on the Scriptures again, I see.

Jacob was born to Isaac.
Jacob's name was changed to Israel.
Israel had twelve sons which became the twelve tribes of Israel.
King David ruled over the twelve tribes in the land, also known as Israel.
Solomon sat on David's throne over the same.
Under Solomon's son Rehaboam, the tribes were divided into two kingdoms, called the House of Israel in the north and the house of Judah in the south.
Nevertheless in some places in the prophets, GOD still refers to 'the whole house of Israel', or 'the whole house of Jacob' or the family/Israel which He brought out of Egypt.
He also speaks of a time when the northern ten/Ephraim, will be reunited with the southern two, Judah, thus a restored Israel/ten tribes under the promised Davidic Messaiah.
When the Lord Jesus came, He ministered to what He called 'Israel', which were the people, largely descended from the Southern Kingdom which had returned to the land under Ezra and Nehemiah, but here and there were those of the other tribes.
The terms Jew and Israel had become largely synonymous by the time of the Lord's ministry.
The Lord's church, His body is not called Israel any where in the scriptures, for that matter, it is called a new creation, a new entity, not even called a nation, but an entity composed from all nations, including some from the Jews/Israel.
To call believing Gentiles by the terms Israel or Jew is twist the plain definitions put forth in Scripture.

Beat me to it. Nicely laid out!

 

[achduke]

Imposing definitions on the Scriptures again, I see.

Jacob was born to Isaac.
Jacob's name was changed to Israel.
Israel had twelve sons which became the twelve tribes of Israel.
King David ruled over the twelve tribes in the land, also known as Israel.
Solomon sat on David's throne over the same.
Under Solomon's son Rehaboam, the tribes were divided into two kingdoms, called the House of Israel in the north and the house of Judah in the south.
Nevertheless in some places in the prophets, GOD still refers to 'the whole house of Israel', or 'the whole house of Jacob' or the family/Israel which He brought out of Egypt.
He also speaks of a time when the northern ten/Ephraim, will be reunited with the southern two, Judah, thus a restored Israel/ten tribes under the promised Davidic Messaiah.
When the Lord Jesus came, He ministered to what He called 'Israel', which were the people, largely descended from the Southern Kingdom which had returned to the land under Ezra and Nehemiah, but here and there were those of the other tribes.
The terms Jew and Israel had become largely synonymous by the time of the Lord's ministry.
The Lord's church, His body is not called Israel any where in the scriptures, for that matter, it is called a new creation, a new entity, not even called a nation, but an entity composed from all nations, including some from the Jews/Israel.
To call believing Gentiles by the terms Israel or Jew is twist the plain definitions put forth in Scripture.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,

Rom 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free- -and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Beat me to it. Nicely laid out!

There's only one kingdom in prophecy.

It's Christ's.

All dominions will receive it and serve it.

 

[steko]

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,

Rom 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free- -and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Amen to all Scripture...... however I can't say amen to whatever you think that these scriptures mean, since I don't know what you think they mean. You haven't actually said anything to me by posting these scriptures because as I read the scriptures which you posted, they only affirm what I understand them to mean.

 

[achduke]

Amen to all Scripture...... however I can't say amen to whatever you think that these scriptures mean, since I don't know what you think they mean. You haven't actually said anything to me by posting these scriptures because as I read the scriptures which you posted, they only affirm what I understand them to mean.

We are all one body in Christ. All Israel will be saved.

Jer 31:31 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--

God makes the new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

That new covenant is that he would give us his Holy Spirit to lead us the same as Paul taught.

There is no House of the gentiles. We are grafted into Israel as stated in Romans. Into one Body.

 

[achduke]

1 Corinthians 12:13-14 KJV -

So you agree we are all one body?

 

[steko]

We are all one body in Christ.

Yes.....whoever is actually in the body of Christ.

All Israel will be saved.

Yes indeed but that's not the body of Christ which already is saved.
The Israel which will be saved is the same Israel as defined thoughout Scripture.

Jer 31:31 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--

God makes the new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

He will, indeed.....''when He takes away their sins."

That new covenant is that he would give us his Holy Spirit to lead us the same as Paul taught.

Did your fathers get led out of Egypt by the hand of GOD?
Well, that's the Israel that He is talking to and about.
He's not talking to the nations/gentiles.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is connected to the same covenant with the whole house of Israel and assures them that He will 'cause' them by His Spirit to obey Him.....in the land promised.

Were you promised that land?
It's an integral part of the whole which concerns the new covenant with Israel.
Are you now in that land where Abraham walked up and down in?
If not, are you going there?

The Body of Christ are called citizens of Heaven and are looking to the promise of being there......not in the land irrevovably promised to Israel.

There is no House of the gentiles.

Of course not.
The gentiles are the nations.

We are grafted into Israel as stated in Romans. Into one Body.

Into one Body, yes, the new creation where there is neither Jew nor Gentile. It's funny how people will claim there is no Jew in the Body and then turn around and call themselves spiritual Israel and spiritual Jews.

We are not grafted into Israel and Romans does not say that we are.
We are grafted into something, but......it's not Israel.

All Israel will be saved when 'the deliverer comes out of Zion'....yet future and the New Covenant is made with them when He takes away their sins.

My sins were dealt with 2000 years ago and the benefit applied to me when I believed the gospel of grace.

 

[achduke]

Yes.....whoever is actually in the body of Christ.



Yes indeed but that's not the body of Christ which already is saved.
The Israel which will be saved is the same Israel as defined thoughout Scripture.



He will, indeed.....''when He takes away their sins."



Did your fathers get led out of Egypt by the hand of GOD?
Well, that's the Israel that He is talking to and about.
He's not talking to the nations/gentiles.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is connected to the same covenant with the whole house of Israel and assures them that He will 'cause' them by His Spirit to obey Him.....in the land promised.

Were you promised that land?
It's an integral part of the whole which concerns the new covenant with Israel.
Are you now in that land where Abraham walked up and down in?
If not, are you going there?

The Body of Christ are called citizens of Heaven and are looking to the promise of being there......not in the land irrevovably promised to Israel.



Of course not.
The gentiles are the nations.



Into one Body, yes, the new creation where there is neither Jew nor Gentile. It's funny how people will claim there is no Jew in the Body and then turn around and call themselves spiritual Israel and spiritual Jews.

We are not grafted into Israel and Romans does not say that we are.
We are grafted into something, but......it's not Israel.

All Israel will be saved when 'the deliverer comes out of Zion'....yet future and the New Covenant is made with them when He takes away their sins.

My sins were dealt with 2000 years ago and the benefit applied to me when I believed the gospel of grace.

Read the OT. God makes his covenant old and new with Israel. Even Paul speaks of this new covenent that we are ministers to. Why would the gentiles be ministers of the new covenant if God promises it to Israel? Because we are all Israel. Native born and grafted in. We are all one in Christ. If you have the Holy spirit then you are in Christ. Peter had the Holy Spirit, Paul had the Holy Spirit. All the church does. It is the covenant promised to Israel and is still being fulfilled. It will not be accomplished fully until the last day.

Isa 49:6 Indeed He says, 'It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.' "


2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[heir]

Lol, you better go back and catch up on some reading.

Since you've been gone the truth has now been put in black and white.

It's been here much longer than we and you still don't believe it!

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Romans 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Romans 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[tetelestai]

He also speaks of a time when the northern ten/Ephraim, will be reunited with the southern two, Judah, thus a restored Israel/ten tribes

Which happened when Christ Jesus shed His blood on the cross.

And it's restored Israel/12 tribes, not ten tribes.