ECT DID JESUS TEACH SOLA SCRIPTURA?

Cruciform

Cruciform

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Bright Raven said:
And where does tradition come from?
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From Christ and the apostles, through the Magisterium (body of bishops) of Christ's one historic Church. (St. Athanasius answers your question in the quotation at the bottom of this post.)


Dwight Campbell, A PRIMER ON DIVINE REVELATION (Scepter, 1998):
Q: ...why did God arrange that there be successors to the Apostles who were given the Apostles' own position of teaching authority, as pope and bishops?

A: To ensure that the apostolic preaching (Tradition) be handed on faithfully to all future generations, and that the Word of God committed to writing (Scripture) be interpreted faithfully and without error. This mission is carried on by the successors to the Apostles [i.e., the bishops], who are guided in their work by the Holy Spirit---the same Holy Spirit who inspired the writing of the Scriptures (Catechism, pars. 77, 857, 861-862, 890).​



Gaudium de veritate,

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Bright Raven said:
That scripture is the final authority on all things.
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The catholics go futher than the scriptures. Tim Lahaye, Author of the "Left Behind" series, has this list in another book of his called "Revelation Unveiled" in which he analyzed the book of Revelations. In Revelations, Jesus speaks of 7 churches (their faults, follies, and future). In the book he relates a lot of practices of theses churches to the actions of the catholic church. Here is a list of the "made up rules" he mentions:

Pagan Practices introduced to Church (to make the transition in Rome easier)

A.D. 300-Prayers for the dead A.D. 300-Making sign of the cross A.D. 375-Worship of saints and angels A.D. 394-Mass first instituted A.D. 431-Worship of Mary begun A.D. 500-Priest began dressing differently than laypeople A.D. 526-Extreme unction A.D. 593-Doctrine of purgatory introduced A.D. 600-worship services conducted in latin A.D. 600-Prayers directed to Mary A.D. 607-Boniface III made first Pope A.D. 709-Kissing the Pope's foot A.D. 786-Worshiping of images and relics A.D. 850-Use of "holy water" begun A.D. 995-Canonization of dead saints A.D. 998-Fasting on Friday's during Lent A.D. 1079-Celibacy of the preisthood A.D. 1090-Prayer beads A.D. 1184-The Inquisition A.D. 1190-Sale if Indulgence A.D. 1215-Transubstantiation A.D. 1220-Adoration of the wafer (Host) A.D. 1229-Bible forbidden to laypeople (It was actually only forbidden to be printed in anything other than latin, but the common man didn't read latin)

The list goes on to include the creation of the seven sacraments, Ave Maria, etc....
 
Daniel1611

Daniel1611

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Talk about beyond scripture. Tim lahaye has convinced millions of people that one day Christians will vanish without a trace and the world will be confused by the pile of clothes that are left. There's is no such event anywhere in scripture. Lahaye makes merchandize of believers and he surely inst sola scriptura
 
K

kayaker

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Jesus didn’t teach ‘sola-Catholicism’. From the Catholic Bible, John chapter 8:

12
Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”f

13
So the Pharisees said to him, “You testify on your own behalf, so your testimony cannot be verified.”

14
Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I do testify on my own behalf, my testimony can be verified,* because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I come from or where I am going.g

15
You judge by appearances,* but I do not judge anyone.h

16
And even if I should judge, my judgment is valid, because I am not alone, but it is I and the Father who sent me.i

17
Even in your law* it is written that the testimony of two men can be verified.j

18
I testify on my behalf and so does the Father who sent me.”k

http://www.usccb.org/bible/john/8​


Witnesses testify, do they not (John 8:32 KJV)? In fact, these two testimonies to Jesus’ divine Paternity “converted” (Matthew 13:15 KJV) believers (John 8:30 KJV) into Jesus’ disciples (John 8:31 KJV). Jesus was one witness to His divine Paternity, and His Father was the second witness to Jesus’ divine Paternity. Jesus’ testimony is found a few verses later, shifting to the KJV in John:

John 8:38 KJV “I speak that which I have seen with my Father…”​

What did Jesus specifically and succinctly see with His Father, as an eyewitness to the “truth” of Jesus’ divine Paternity (John 8:32 KJV)?

Jesus’ Father’s testimony, the second witness to Jesus’ divine Paternity, is found a couple verses on in John:

John 8:40 KJV “But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God (second witness): this did not Abraham (tell you).”​

What “truth” (John 8:32 KJV) did Jesus specifically and succinctly hear from His Father, that even Abraham didn’t hear, comprising the second testimony to Jesus’ divine Paternity?

Well, folks… the Catholics are clueless to these two specific and succinct testimonies. And, their diluted Bible pushes this discernment into the scriptural abyss. Quite a testimony to RCC Bible-onlyism! Therefore, the RCC had to establish their own method of converting believers into disciples (of the RCC, btw) since the Catholics do NOT comprehend the truth of Jesus’ divinity provided by these two divine witnesses.

So much for ‘sola-RCC’, and so much for RCC Bible-onlyism… that is, unless a devout and Scripturally knowledgeable Catholic can finally arrive on TOL; and, specifically and succinctly unveil these two divine testimonies to Jesus’ divine Paternity as a testimony for the RCC being harbingers of Divine Truth.

kayaker
 
Bright Raven

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Daniel1611 said:
Talk about beyond scripture. Tim lahaye has convinced millions of people that one day Christians will vanish without a trace and the world will be confused by the pile of clothes that are left. There's is no such event anywhere in scripture. Lahaye makes merchandize of believers and he surely inst sola scriptura
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No Rapture?
 
Puppet

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Cruciform said:
So do non-Catholics.


Answered here, here, and here.



Gaudium de veritate,

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Not answered.
Catholics do not believe that "those who believe in Jesus will have everlasting life". Instead one must perform works, transfer merits from holier saints, perform rituals, and after all of that the sacrifice of the God's only Son was not enough but we must also suffer more punishment.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

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Puppet said:
Can you break all that down in one paragraph? If not, that’s ok
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It would be better for you if you "did your homework" on these issues by carefully and thoroughly studying them for yourself. I would recommend printing copies of the material I cited and working your way through them at your own pace. May God bless you as you seek his truth.



Gaudium de veritate,

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Puppet

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Cruciform said:
It would be better for you if you "did your homework" on these issues by carefully and thoroughly studying them for yourself. I would recommend printing copies of the material I cited and working your way through them at your own pace. May God bless you as you seek his truth.



Gaudium de veritate,

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Been there done that but thank you for your time
 
R

republicanchick

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oatmeal said:
He most certainly did not teach that the pope and tradition trumps scripture,
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the Catholic Church doesn't teach this either.. Too bad you anti-Catholics don't do your homework b4 spouting off and making a ... donkey out of yourself
He deplored tradition and those who made of show of their religiousity, by the garments they wore and their self seeking motives
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WRONG

he deplored HUMAN tradition.. you know, things like

the fact that there is a new "church" started in this country every week... or is it in the world? whichever...

you'd think God would only establish ONE Church....

(Catholics say he did)



___
 
Puppet

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Cruciform said:
Be honest. Did you "study" secondary anti-Catholic screeds written by Protestants, or primary source material actually written by Catholic scholars and apologists? :think:
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If one defines a central tenet of Christianity as "belief that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and, through his death and resurrection, anyone that believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life", then it's an easy line to say "Catholicism teaches you could believe, but that isn't enough, you need to do several other things and study primary source materials actually written by Catholic scholars and apologists.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

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Puppet said:
If one defines a central tenet of Christianity as "belief that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and, through his death and resurrection, anyone that believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life", then it's an easy line to say "Catholicism teaches you could believe, but that isn't enough, you need to do several other things and study primary source materials actually written by Catholic scholars and apologists.
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By that "logic," we can go ahead and hold to nothing but John 3:16 and throw the rest of the Bible in the trash. No, the "believing in Jesus" that the apostles speak of involves a whole lot more than merely acknowledging his existence or even his role as Savior. It involves all that Christ's one historic Church---the Church that Christ himself founded---believes and teaches in his name. You cannot have the former without the latter.

So I'll take your above comment as a "no," you have not in fact studied Catholicism from the primary Catholic documents. Therefore, you actually know nothing real or authentic about it, and so have no basis whatsoever for even forming an opinion on the subject, let alone presuming to express it on a public forum.

So much, then, for your claim to have "been there, done that," since you have in fact been nowhere and done nothing.



Gaudium de veritate,

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rougueone

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DID JESUS TEACH SOLA SCRIPTURA?

Question did god teach the Bible only? The sola Scriptura as written in the 66 books of Gods revelation to man, disclosing His relationship with Himself-Jesus, creation, and man.
 
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