Did Christ die for all men?

Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Ben Masada said:
Sonnet, the Law of righteousness was not given to attend a certain aim and say, "I am done." The Law was given as a way of life so that we can live in peace with each other.
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Nonetheless, Paul states that his brethren, on the whole - including the leadership, sought to attain their own righteousness through works of the law.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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heir said:
They are behind pulpits all over the world and right here on TOL (2 Corinthians 11:13-15 KJV). They claim we play a part in saving ourselves when the truth of our salvation is Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV, Titus 3:5-7 KJV. They hang their hat on a gospel and doctrine that was preached in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, by Peter in Acts, and Hebrews through Revelation and it is not written TO any of us!
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Certainly Jesus came to the Jews but his words are for gentiles as well.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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journey said:
You are clearly in error and are most of the time.

Galatians 2:7-9 KJV But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9. And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
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Romans 10. Paul gives the gospel to all but focuses on his brethren. There is one gospel.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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Lon said:
Just "Christ died for sinners." I don't believe He died for all sinners past, prior to His death burial, and resurrection. The good new is that Jesus Christ died to save sinners and then "all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved." Is it true to tell someone: "Christ died, specifically to 'save you!'" ? Even from your perspective, is that 100% true? I don't think it is necessary to say that. Simply "Christ died to save sinners like you and I," and "all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
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There is but one Gospel.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4 is the Gospel.
Paul preached the Gospel to the unsaved.
Therefore Paul told unbelievers that 'Christ died for our sins'.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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heir said:
All who are saved today are saved by Paul's gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).
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Acts 13:4-5
The two of them, sent on their way by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia and sailed from there to Cyprus. When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the Jewish synagogues. John was with them as their helper.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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Acts 13:26-32
“Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Jesus, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath. Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed. When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the cross and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead, and for many days he was seen by those who had travelled with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to our people. “We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Sonnet said:
Acts 13:26-32
“Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Jesus, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath. Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed. When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the cross and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead, and for many days he was seen by those who had travelled with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to our people. “We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus.
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Those were to whom Paul was first sent out of Israel and associated with them. They are still not considered the Israel of God as Israel had fallen (Romans 11:11 KJV) and BTW, has a future Romans 11:26-27 KJV). That's not us. This is us in time past Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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heir said:
His earthly ministry was to: Matthew 15:24 KJV, Romans 15:8 KJV. Believe what saith the scripture.
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I don't disagree that he came to them. What reasons will you give why his words do not apply, by extension, to gentiles?
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Sonnet said:
I don't disagree that he came to them. What reasons will you give why his words do not apply, by extension, to gentiles?
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Why would I want to read someone else's mail and apply it TO myself? That's bad theology at the least.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Sonnet said:
Gentiles grafted in to the olive tree.
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There were Gentiles graffed in to the olive tree. That still doesn't make it us. They were already in that position when Paul wrote his letter to the Romans. Where does it say we are graffed in? It doesn't. Another way to know that isn't us is that the Gentiles who held that position could be cut off. Not one member of the Body of Christ can be.
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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heir said:
Those were to whom Paul was first sent out of Israel and associated with them. They are still not considered the Israel of God as Israel had fallen (Romans 11:11 KJV) and BTW, has a future Romans 11:26-27 KJV). That's not us. This is us in time past Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV
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Certainly the 'baton' has been taken from them and given to the true church.

Sorry, I'm still not quite with you.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Sonnet said:
I'm not following you.

Paul preached the same gospel to Jews and gentiles. His focus was on the gentiles. But his ambition was Romans 15:20.
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It's not Jews and Gentiles and that's it. There are two groups in the one Body of Christ. There are Gentiles in both groups. The first were in the promise (Galatians 3:29 KJV), but we are likened to the you gentiles like that of the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter: aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise )Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV).
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

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heir said:
There were Gentiles graffed in to the olive tree. That still doesn't make it us. They were already in that position when Paul wrote his letter to the Romans. Where does it say we are graffed in? It doesn't. Another way to know that isn't us is that the Gentiles who held that position could be cut off. Not one member of the Body of Christ can be.
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? I must be missing something.

Us? Sorry, what do you mean?
 
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