DACA - Dreamers

[The Barbarian]

Is that one of your favorite beliefs or is it a well-known fact? And, if you're basing it on a 'well-known fact' please provide the 'proof' that backs up your statement.

Let's start with the people who trusted him with their money after which he took his share, and then ran various companies into bankruptcy. His concern for those who trusted him?

He makes no apologies for having much of his debt wiped out. "These lenders aren't babies. These are total killers," he said at the debate. "These are not the nice, sweet little people."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/news/companies/donald-trump-bankruptcy/index.html



It's also proper to note, as does legal scholar Christopher Peterson of the University of Utah, that a finding against Trump on fraud or racketeering charges at trial might very well expose him to the risk of impeachment.

Trump University, it will be recalled, was pitched to the unwary as an opportunity to learn "the Trump process for investing in today's once-in-a-lifetime real estate market" from a cadre of Trump's "hand-picked" instructors. Schneiderman alleged that this was false. Of the instructors, "not a single one was 'handpicked' by Donald Trump." Some had little real-estate experience at all, and some actually had gone bankrupt in the business.

What they had been trained to do was "sell, sell, sell," according to a Trump University "playbook" made public via court proceedings. What they were selling was an array of increasingly expensive generic seminars — topping out at $35,000 — developed not by Trump but by a company specializing in "motivational speakers and seminars and timeshare rental companies."

The playbook was heavily devoted to marketing the program, not teaching the particulars of the Trump Way. Employees were instructed in hard-sell methods and equipped with pre-masticated rebuttals of their potential customers' objections. Let one say, "I need to think about it," and the answer would be, "You've already been thinking about this too long… It's time to commit to yourself and learn the TRUMP way to invest."

A former sales manager testified that he was reprimanded for advising a prospect couple against signing up for the $35,000 "elite" program, because they would have to use the husband's disability income and drain equity in their apartment. Another salesman completed the sale instead.
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-trump-university-20161121-story.html

We should, I suppose, consider the three wives he betrayed in turn with other women.

His followers have frequently realized they had been taken. Ann Coulter is only the latest major supporter to realize that he's completely untrustworthy.

Coulter: Trump's new immigration proposal a 'total betrayal'

Jan. 26, 2018 - 3:55 - Ann Coulter says Trump's new plan that would offer a path to citizenship for approximately 1.8 million of the so-called 'Dreamers' betrays the very reasons so many Americans voted for him to begin with.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5720466608001/?#sp=show-clips

There's more. Want to see more?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Let's start with the people who trusted him with their money after which he took his share, and then ran various companies into bankruptcy. His concern for those who trusted him?


http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/31/news/companies/donald-trump-bankruptcy/index.html



It's also proper to note, as does legal scholar Christopher Peterson of the University of Utah, that a finding against Trump on fraud or racketeering charges at trial might very well expose him to the risk of impeachment.

Trump University, it will be recalled, was pitched to the unwary as an opportunity to learn "the Trump process for investing in today's once-in-a-lifetime real estate market" from a cadre of Trump's "hand-picked" instructors. Schneiderman alleged that this was false. Of the instructors, "not a single one was 'handpicked' by Donald Trump." Some had little real-estate experience at all, and some actually had gone bankrupt in the business.

What they had been trained to do was "sell, sell, sell," according to a Trump University "playbook" made public via court proceedings. What they were selling was an array of increasingly expensive generic seminars — topping out at $35,000 — developed not by Trump but by a company specializing in "motivational speakers and seminars and timeshare rental companies."

The playbook was heavily devoted to marketing the program, not teaching the particulars of the Trump Way. Employees were instructed in hard-sell methods and equipped with pre-masticated rebuttals of their potential customers' objections. Let one say, "I need to think about it," and the answer would be, "You've already been thinking about this too long… It's time to commit to yourself and learn the TRUMP way to invest."

A former sales manager testified that he was reprimanded for advising a prospect couple against signing up for the $35,000 "elite" program, because they would have to use the husband's disability income and drain equity in their apartment. Another salesman completed the sale instead.
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-trump-university-20161121-story.html

We should, I suppose, consider the three wives he betrayed in turn with other women.

His followers have frequently realized they had been taken. Ann Coulter is only the latest major supporter to realize that he's completely untrustworthy.

Coulter: Trump's new immigration proposal a 'total betrayal'

Jan. 26, 2018 - 3:55 - Ann Coulter says Trump's new plan that would offer a path to citizenship for approximately 1.8 million of the so-called 'Dreamers' betrays the very reasons so many Americans voted for him to begin with.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5720466608001/?#sp=show-clips

There's more. Want to see more?

Do you receive ALL of your "Facts" from CNN and their ilk?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The Democratic Party has become, not only a 21st-century religion, (Cult) it's also a habitat for mentally disturbed individuals and those who have been deluded by satanic influences. Including but not limited to "Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

According to the "Far-left," Trump is incapable of saying or doing anything of value. I find that extremely odd. The bottom line always comes back to the fact that, Hillary lost the election and no one on the "Far-left" can accept that defeat. That's what drove the "Far-left" to madness and mental decay.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The "Far-left" have jettisoned their ability to be "Intellectually Honest" about anything and everything.

 

[The Barbarian]

Do you receive ALL of your "Facts" from CNN and their ilk?

Trump's adulteries, came from his acknowledgement and that infamous tape.

His defrauding thousands of people who trusted him came from court records and his agreement to pay back the people he defrauded.

His betrayal of the people who were counting on him to attack Hispanics came from Ann Coulter's angry outburst over his betrayal. (that's the word she used)

His own words tell us about his feelings for the investors who trusted him and lost their money.

Stuff like that.

 

[patrick jane]

Anybody that thinks dems care about dreamers should look at history and their reaction to Trump's offer. The dems had control of Congress and had Obama for 8 years and they did nothing to help the dreamers. Trump offers more than twice what they wanted and they reject it and scream white supremacy. Proof that they only use immigrants as a political tool and to increase the number of low information voters.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Anybody that thinks dems care about dreamers should look at history and their reaction to Trump's offer. The dems had control of Congress and had Obama for 8 years and they did nothing to help the dreamers. Trump offers more than twice what they wanted and they reject it and scream white supremacy. Proof that they only use immigrants as a political tool and to increase the number of low information voters.

True.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Trump's adulteries, came from his acknowledgement and that infamous tape.

His defrauding thousands of people who trusted him came from court records and his agreement to pay back the people he defrauded.

His betrayal of the people who were counting on him to attack Hispanics came from Ann Coulter's angry outburst over his betrayal. (that's the word she used)

His own words tell us about his feelings for the investors who trusted him and lost their money.

Stuff like that.

Face reality, Barb, you and your ilk absolutely HATE Trump and the people (like me) who voted for him. If one were to actually believe you guys one would have to conclude that you earnestly believe Hillary is pretty close to being the "Perfect Specimen" of a human being. I recently saw, Don Lemon on CNN interviewing Franklyn Graham (Billy Graham's Son) and Don Lemon stated that "Obama is a near-perfect human being." Sounds like religion to me. I remember right before the 2008 election, Obama was being called "The messiah."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I believe the "Far-left" as I've said before, is a "New Religion." Its "True believers" are ardent about their belief system and will not relent on any of their core beliefs. They believe they are right and Trump and his supporters are; evil, white supremacists, facists/nazis, and totally racist. How does one debate "Far-left zealots" like these? The quick answer is; you don't and you cannot. The Far-left has been successful in brainwashing their minions into separating themselves from Trump and all of his supporters. We now have a "Us against them division" in our Nation. I really don't have any answers about what to do about this 'harsh reality?'

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian reminds Grosnik that no one ever trusted Trump who didn't live to regret it:
Trump's adulteries, came from his acknowledgement and that infamous tape.

His defrauding thousands of people who trusted him came from court records and his agreement to pay back the people he defrauded.

His betrayal of the people who were counting on him to attack Hispanics came from Ann Coulter's angry outburst over his betrayal. (that's the word she used)

His own words tell us about his feelings for the investors who trusted him and lost their money.

Stuff like that.

Face reality, Barb,

I just showed you reality.

you and your ilk absolutely HATE Trump and the people (like me) who voted for him.

As you know, I suggested early on that Trump might actually turn out to be a pretty good president. We've had sleazy presidents before, some of whom actually did a pretty good job. Trump just can't seem to help himself. And I don't hate you; I feel sorry for you.

If one were to actually believe you guys one would have to conclude that you earnestly believe Hillary is pretty close to being the "Perfect Specimen" of a human being.

If you have to make up false stories about what I think, isn't that a pretty good clue that you're not being realistic?

I recently saw, Don Lemon on CNN interviewing Franklyn Graham (Billy Graham's Son) and Don Lemon stated that "Obama is a near-perfect human being."

Being libertarian in inclination, I don't think anyone gets to be president while being "near-perfect." Obama looks great mostly by comparison to Trump.

It would be healthy for you to realistically face up to the facts here. No on has ever trusted Trump who hasn't lived to regret it. Not his investors, not the people who trusted him on his "Trump University" scam, not his wives, each of which he betrayed in turn, not his political supporters, who he trashed whenever it was convenient for him to do so.

Coulter appeared on Lou Dobbs’ show and called this the “lowest day in Trump’s presidency.”

Coulter said that Trump confirmed everything in the Wolff book with the meeting on immigration.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/...meeting-on-dreamers-deal-and-she-is-not-happy

He betrayed you guys. Because it was expedient for him to do that. He was way on the wrong side on DACA, and because he doesn't care one way or the other, he tossed you under the bus to pander to public opinion.



Learn to live with it.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Barbarian reminds Grosnik that no one ever trusted Trump who didn't live to regret it:
Trump's adulteries, came from his acknowledgement and that infamous tape.

His defrauding thousands of people who trusted him came from court records and his agreement to pay back the people he defrauded.

His betrayal of the people who were counting on him to attack Hispanics came from Ann Coulter's angry outburst over his betrayal. (that's the word she used)

His own words tell us about his feelings for the investors who trusted him and lost their money.

Stuff like that.



I just showed you reality.



As you know, I suggested early on that Trump might actually turn out to be a pretty good president. We've had sleazy presidents before, some of whom actually did a pretty good job. Trump just can't seem to help himself. And I don't hate you; I feel sorry for you.



If you have to make up false stories about what I think, isn't that a pretty good clue that you're not being realistic?



Being libertarian in inclination, I don't think anyone gets to be president while being "near-perfect." Obama looks great mostly by comparison to Trump.

It would be healthy for you to realistically face up to the facts here. No on has ever trusted Trump who hasn't lived to regret it. Not his investors, not the people who trusted him on his "Trump University" scam, not his wives, each of which he betrayed in turn, not his political supporters, who he trashed whenever it was convenient for him to do so.

Coulter appeared on Lou Dobbs’ show and called this the “lowest day in Trump’s presidency.”

Coulter said that Trump confirmed everything in the Wolff book with the meeting on immigration.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/...meeting-on-dreamers-deal-and-she-is-not-happy

He betrayed you guys. Because it was expedient for him to do that. He was way on the wrong side on DACA, and because he doesn't care one way or the other, he tossed you under the bus to pander to public opinion.



Learn to live with it.

I agree with you in the last sentence. That being; "Learn to live with it." That is; Learn to live with the fact that Donald J. Trump will be YOUR President for at least the rest of his first term and beyond.

 

[patrick jane]

Citizenship question to return to 2020 census, Commerce Department ...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...over-citizenship-question-in-2020-census.html
Excerpt : California on Monday promised to sue the Trump administration over its decision to ask the 2020 census respondents if they are citizens of the United States.California Attorney General Xavier Becerra announced the suit against the administration late Monday on Twitter, saying the measure would be unlawful.
“Filing suit against @realdonaldtrump's Administration over decision to add #citizenship question on #2020Census. Including the question is not just a bad idea — it is illegal,” Becerra wrote.

Xavier Becerra
✔@AGBecerra


#BREAKING: Filing suit against @realdonaldtrump's Administration over decision to add #citizenship question on #2020Census. Including the question is not just a bad idea — it is illegal: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Citizenship-question-on-2020-census-may-result-in-12783055.php …
9:55 PM - Mar 26, 2018








​

 

[The Barbarian]

What a pleasant, non-confrontational name for children of illegals.

People brought here as children by no fault of their own, growing up as Americans.

Don't hurt the dreamers, they have a dream.

The believe in America. More than you do. That matters.

It's amnesty, pure and simple,

What crime did they commit? C'mon. The last actual illegal immigrant amnesty was done by Reagan.

put into place by Obummer under executive order, because that was the only way he could get it through.

Because the froot loops in Congress didn't have the manhood to do it. But Americans wanted it, so he was able to do it, and still be effective as president.

Americans still support DACA by huge majorities.

Poll: Nearly 9 in 10 want DACA recipients to stay in US
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay

Poll: Vast majority of Americans support DACA
https://www.axios.com/poll-vast-maj...811-8a51c796-d552-45c7-bae5-e3e77f4a0ff7.html

Do three-quarters of Americans support the DREAM Act?

http://www.politifact.com/californi...pelosi-claims-three-quarters-americans-suppo/

The temporary order is about to expire.

And Congress called his bluff. No money to build his vanity wall. So here he is, with his hostages, and no one is taking him seriously. He can deport them all, with the massive economic consequences:

DACA deportations could cost US economy more than $400 billion

Trump's decision to remove of hundreds of thousands of young immigrants from the workforce could cost the economy hundreds of billions of dollars over the next 10 years.
The Trump administration announced the "wind down" over the next six months of the DACA program, which shields some 800,000 young immigrants from deportation.
Unless Congress acts to replace the Obama-era program with similar protections, those people would no longer be allowed to work in the U.S.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/05/daca-deportations-could-cost-us-economy-more-than-400-billion.html

What about our own citizens who are under served and struggling?

As you know, the U.S. economy and employment have been rising since 2010. Trump can turn that around if he ignores public opinion and justice, and deports these people. Remember I told you so.

Will we give amnesty to all people under 18 just because they set foot in America?

Remember, it's not an amnesty, if there wasn't a crime to forgive. DACA people didn't commit a crime.

The demonrats only see votes

They see workers building the economy. They see people behaving better than the average native-born American. You guys see the enemy.

And that's a shame, patrick.

 

[The Barbarian]

(Barbarian is asked what Trump has done wrong)
Trump's adulteries, came from his acknowledgement and that infamous tape.

His defrauding thousands of people who trusted him came from court records and his agreement to pay back the people he defrauded.

His betrayal of the people who were counting on him to attack Hispanics came from Ann Coulter's angry outburst over his betrayal. (that's the word she used)

His own words tell us about his feelings for the investors who trusted him and lost their money.

Stuff like that.

Face reality, Barb

That is reality, Grosnik. You hate anyone who says a word against your hero, but as you see, he's an amoral narcissist. Yes, I know he's to be pitied more than censured; he's always been a bitter, unhappy man, because he will never get the adulation and power he craves. But he's doing massive damage to America, and that matters.

you and your ilk absolutely HATE Trump and the people (like me) who voted for him.

As I said, you might actually be a decent person other than in your need to enable Trump. By now we have enough information about his personal life to know that he's not a decent person. The answer isn't to hate him. We just need to keep him from doing more damage.

Trump probably doesn't even want to hurt anyone who hasn't offended him in some way. He just doesn't care if he does. I doubt if he ever planned to harm any person unless he felt that it could benefit him in some way.

If one were to actually believe you guys one would have to conclude that you earnestly believe Hillary is pretty close to being the "Perfect Specimen" of a human being.

If you actually believe that, you're a bigger idiot than most people here think you are. And that's saying something.

I recently saw, Don Lemon on CNN interviewing Franklyn Graham (Billy Graham's Son) and Don Lemon stated that "Obama is a near-perfect human being."

Obama just looks perfect because of those who came before and after him. Who wouldn't look perfect, next to Trump?

 

[patrick jane]

 

[The Barbarian]

[/B]

I agree with you in the last sentence. That being; "Learn to live with it." That is; Learn to live with the fact that Donald J. Trump will be YOUR President for at least the rest of his first term and beyond.

Hey, I lived through the McCarthy era, and through the Nixon years. And those guys weren't just corrupt; they were also competent. So while the policies of this administration may cause significant harm to America, it's nothing like the threat posed by McCarthy or Nixon.

 

[The Barbarian]

The fact that Trump chose to not end DACA at once, but to threaten to end it if he didn't get his way, suggests that he doesn't intend to actually carry through on the threat.

And for good reasons his economic advisors have already explained to him.

The Insane Economic Cost of Ending DACA
Research from both the right-leaning Cato Institute and left-leaning Center for American Progress suggests Trump’s economic and immigration goals may be diametrically opposed. Their research indicates that ending DACA — and deporting the workers who will no longer enjoy legal status — could reduce the size of the U.S. economy by anywhere from $280 billion to $430 billion over the next decade.

Of course, it’s difficult to predict the precise economic effect of pushing hundreds and thousands of workers out of their jobs and — depending on how far the Trump Administration takes its threats — actually forcing them to leave the country. Cato says DACA recipients, whose average age is 22 and who earn about $17 an hour on average, “tend to be younger, better educated, and more highly paid than the typical immigrant.” This suggests that, as a group, they contribute more to the broader economy than the average immigrant worker.

Cato compared DACA recipients to another group of highly educated immigrants which has been more closely studied, holders of H-1B visas for skilled workers. “In short, they appear to be a close reflection of what DACA recipients will look like a few years from now as they complete their educations,” Cato said.

After adjusting for age and experience, Cato estimated removing the DACA immigrants from the economy would cost the U.S. $215 billion in lost economic output over 10 years, plus another $60 billion in lost taxes. Deporting them would cost another $7.5 billion, and when that’s added up the cost of ending the DACA program comes to a total of minus $283 billion.

The Center For American Progress arrived at its estimate in a different way. The organization used figures it had previously calculated to gauge the lost economic output if the government attempted to remove up to 7 million undocumented workers from workforce, then adjusting on a state-by-state basis for the portion of these workers in the DACA program.
http://time.com/money/4928394/daca-economic-cost-trump/

 

[patrick jane]

Search Results

Democrats' DACA scam: Keeping Dreamers in limbo for political ...



Excerpt : DACA Dreamers, don’t be fooled. Democrats’ efforts to “save” you from deportation appear compassionate and feel new. But they actually have much to do with political calculation and appear to be yet another page from the playbook they’ve been using for almost a decade now to keep your status in suspension.

In 2009, Democrats controlled the White House with a popular new president, controlled the House with a substantial majority and even had a near-filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.
They could have helped the Dreamers then, but they opted instead to pass health care legislation, then tried to keep the people who cared about your issue on the team with promises to take up immigration after the 2010 midterms.

But Democrats lost control of the House that year and the Senate in 2012. Unable to get legislation through Congress, President Obama created DACA by executive order. He repeatedly called it a temporary and stopgap measure and seemed unsure of its constitutionality himself. Remember “I’m president, I am not king”?

President Trump wants to make that right and return the responsibility for setting immigration policy to the people’s representatives in Congress, as evidenced by his recent decision to return 200,000 people to El Salvador who came here more than a decade ago after an earthquake.

He has offered repeatedly to work with Congress to fix DACA — a position that goes against many in his base. But the Democrats in Congress are preventing progress — and for the same reason they did in 2010, to improve their prospects in the midterm elections.

The Center for American Progress Action Fund, which is at the center of the policy world on the Democratic side, laid it out in a memo to members earlier this month. “The fight to protect Dreamers … is also a critical component of the Democratic Party’s future electoral success…,” it read. “If Democrats don’t try to do everything in their power to defend Dreamers, that will jeopardize Democrats’ electoral chances in 2018 and beyond.”

 

[patrick jane]

Trump on DACA deadline: Democrats just don't care | TheHill


Excerpt :

​

© Getty Images

President Trump on Monday continued to blame Democrats for inaction on the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program as the deadline for a legislative fix came and went.
"It’s March 5th and the Democrats are nowhere to be found on DACA. Gave them 6 months, they just don’t care. Where are they? We are ready to make a deal!” Trump tweeted.

The president has consistently blamed Democratic lawmakers for the lack of a deal on DACA and immigration reform, despite a number of bipartisan proposals to extend the program that the president refused to back.

The Obama-era program allows immigrants brought to the U.S. illegally as children to remain here without fear of deportation.
The Trump administration moved to end DACA last year, giving lawmakers six months to come up with a permanent solution. Congress has been unable to reach a consensus on the issue, and the program was set to expire Monday.

However, that deadline was essentially nullified when the Supreme Court declined to hear arguments on the legal fight surrounding DACA. As a result, an injunction issued by a lower court will keep the program in place amid a legal review.
In the meantime, immigration negotiations in Congress appear to have stalled.

The Trump administration has proposed a hard-line approach of offering a pathway to citizenship for 1.8 million immigrants, many of whom benefit from DACA, coupled with $25 billion for border security and changes to legal immigration programs.