Crisis On The Border, Thanks Joe! (you filthy rapist)
- Thread starter ok doser
- Start date
Exactly. As if justice has somehow changed since the time of Moses.
You are truly and idiot.
If that's how you do doctrine, it's no wonder that you're so upside down on practically everything.
That isn't at all relevant.
Far fewer than have died at the hands of criminals that should have been put to death. FAR FEWER!
You are literally stupid. There isn't anything else to say about it. You're no smarter than an average toad and I'd waste less time trying to convince a frog.
7djengo7
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Clearly you desire to be ignored by rationally-thinking people.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Pretty sure he's retarded
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Meanwhile, on the border ...
And an estimated 40,000 migrants who hope to seek asylum in the US are amassed in Juarez, Mexico, just feet away from Texas’ sixth largest city, waiting for Title 42 to be lifted.
Created during the Trump administration, Title 42 is a pandemic policy that’s allowed the Border Patrol to kick out asylum-seeking migrants from the US and into Mexico without hearing if they have a credible case or not.
It currently applies to Cubans, Guatemalans, Haitians, Hondurans, Mexicans, Nicaraguans, Salvadorans and Venezuelans.
The Biden administration is ending all federal COVID policies on May 11.
nypost.com
And an estimated 40,000 migrants who hope to seek asylum in the US are amassed in Juarez, Mexico, just feet away from Texas’ sixth largest city, waiting for Title 42 to be lifted.
Created during the Trump administration, Title 42 is a pandemic policy that’s allowed the Border Patrol to kick out asylum-seeking migrants from the US and into Mexico without hearing if they have a credible case or not.
It currently applies to Cubans, Guatemalans, Haitians, Hondurans, Mexicans, Nicaraguans, Salvadorans and Venezuelans.
The Biden administration is ending all federal COVID policies on May 11.
Border Patrol releases plan for migrant surge as Title 42 end nears, 40K amass feet away
In El Paso, Texas– ground zero for the border crisis– preparations are underway to deal with an avalanche of migrants when Title 42 ends on May 11, immigration officials announced.
nypost.com
When/if they do so justly, yes.
I am stating fact.
Yes, hoping, you are.
You go directly against God when you advocate that criminals guilty of capital crimes should not be put to death, because God said that such criminals ARE to be put to death, and that NOT doing so profanes Him.
Thus, by advocating AGAINST God's command, you profane Him, because advocating wrongdoing makes you an accomplice of that wrongdoing.
Morality doesn't change over time, Hoping.
Nor do just punishments for crimes. (Speaking about Moral laws only, and NOT about arbitrary laws strictly meant for Israel.)
Murder, theft, adultery, bearing false witness, and coveting; the five laws regarding these are the foundation for EVERY good justice system.
You are profaning God by advocating that we keep people alive who should not live.
He has delegated that responsibility to governments.
Of course He can.
But if you had any idea about what Scripture says, and you clearly do not, you would know that more often than not, God uses means outside of Himself to accomplish His will, rather than doing things directly. For example, He used the Romans to bring about His plan to save the world with Christ's death.
In the same way, He uses governments to enforce justice on evildoers.
If only you would heed those words now.
Quit putting words in my mouth.
Quit trolling.
Advocating for theft on the government's part, for starters.
Good for you. Do you want a cookie or something?
I'll let you figure out the difference between reading a comment, and commenting on it.
Putting a murderer to death is in line with what God commands, with Scripture.
Therefore.... something.
Liar. You've sinned plenty of times in this thread alone.
False.
The problem with your position is that God finds BOTH keeping people alive who should not live, AND killing people who should not die, to be profaning Him.
If try to eliminate the killing of the innocent by letting the guilty go free, you still profane God.
Thus, the only solution is to minimize BOTH equally.
The ONLY way to do that is to not show mercy to those convicted of crimes, and to do thorough investigations into crimes, where, on the testimony of two or three witnesses (and not necessarily eye-witnesses), a suspect can either be exonerated, or condemned.
Our current system is based on "reasonable doubt," a negative. You can't prove a negative. But you can establish a positive. Our current system currently has the highest paid lawyers in the world, and if the amount of crime being committed in any given area is a determiner of how effective a justice system is, we can see that our current system fails utterly at justice.
No one is telling you to hold knives to people's throats.
You hope that I'm right? There isn't any question at all that I'm right and you know it.
As of right now, I no longer consider you to be a Christian. You're a left wing, religious hack that wouldn't know the living God if He showed up to slap your prideful face. Your economic worldview is predicated on theft and your criminal justice worldview is based on showing mercy to murderers and don't bother to give a thought to their victims. The result is poverty that is worse than this nation has ever seen and that is getting worse and a murder rate that hasn't hardly ever seen in the history of mankind.
In short, you haven't any clue what justice looks like and your worldview is literally based on sin! The unsurprising result of which is sin's only rational result which is death. Quite ironic from the fool who claims he doesn't sin.
Clete
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You win the prize for patience, JR!
You've got me beat. That's for sure!
Right Divider
Body part
God's judgement is that the government should put murderers and rapists to death.
It's too bad that you're nicer than God (or at least you think so).
Jesus supports capital punishment:
He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”—then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ” - Matthew 15:3-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:3-9&version=NKJVRevelation supports capital punishment:
If anyone has an ear, let him hear.He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. - Revelation 13:9-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation13:9-10&version=NKJVThen the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood.And I heard the angel of the waters saying: “You are righteous, O Lord, The One who is and who was and who is to be, Because You have judged these things.For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, And You have given them blood to drink. For it is their just due.” - Revelation 16:4-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation16:4-6&version=NKJV
Paul supports capital punishment
So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know.For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar.” - Acts 25:10-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts25:10-11&version=NKJVRepay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:17-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans12:17-21&version=NKJV
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. - Romans 13:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans13:1-5&version=NKJV
Hebrews supports capital punishment
Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? - Hebrews 10:28-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews10:28-29&version=NKJV
The rest of the world is still under the law.
But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. - 1 Timothy 1:8-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy1:8-11&version=NKJV
What if he's about to kill someone in front of you, and you have a gun in your hand?
You don't want that.
His will is not being done. That's the entire point.
God had shown mercy to adulterers before. Remember King David?
Guess what, God never repealed the death penalty in order to show him mercy.
Same with the adulteress, who 1) wouldn't have been convicted anyways, since the "accusers" didn't follow the law to begin with, which would have gotten them in trouble, and in addition to that, 2) the pharisees were trying to trap Christ.
Why do you suppose God commanded judges to not show mercy to criminals?
Showing mercy to the wicked does not produce repentance:
Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the Lord. - Isaiah 26:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah26:10&version=NKJV
A man of great wrath will suffer punishment; For if you rescue him, you will have to do it again. - Proverbs 19:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs19:19&version=NKJV
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
What if the man is providing for himself and/or family by thievery?
What if the man is providing for himself and/or family by selling drugs to school children?
What if the man is providing for himself and/or family by making and selling child pornography?
No one has suggested that you should. What we are talking about is what bible believing Christians as well as anyone else who is interested in seeing justice done should advocate that the laws SHOULD BE.
It does and you will.
I'm telling you that your knowledge of the scriptures is on level with where people my age were when I was in junior high school (i.e. its far worse today - there are people with twenty year careers behind the pulpit that know next to nothing - indeed, you may well be one of them). You haven't any idea what was actually going on in John chapter 8, for example. It had nothing to do with Jesus being merciful. Here's a hint, Jesus had no authority to authorize that woman's execution and the people trying to get Him to do so where not His friends but His enemies.
Here's a question that I wonder whether you'll answer?
What is justice? What does it mean to be just? What does justice look like?
Do you know? Can you explain that concept to us?
Here's a harder one, by what means is God able to show mercy and remain flawlessly just?
Clete
You then live under a non-existent covenant that does not adhere to justice.
7djengo7
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How should I know?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Biden that the administration has lost all contact with.
The letter from Hawley comes after former Health and Human Services (HHS) official-turned-whistleblower Tara Lee Rodas on Wednesday accused the U.S. government in a House Judiciary subcommittee hearing of becoming a “middleman” in a multi-billion dollar migrant trafficking operation at the southern border.
“According to statistics kept by Customs and Border Protection, some 345,000 children have come across the border unaccompanied since early 2021,” Hawley’s letter began. “I am sure you have seen recent reports in the New York Times that the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has lost touch with as many as 85,000 migrant children. Thousands of these children are now the prey of child labor criminals.”
Since President Joe Biden was sworn in as the 46th president over two years ago, more than 3.5 million illegal immigrants have crossed the southern border. Since January 2021, border patrol agents have encountered over 356,000 unaccompanied minors at the southern border, most of whom authorities released into the U.S.
“Reporting reveals that HHS loosened vetting processes for sponsors and retaliated against whistleblowers who raised these concerns,” Hawley’s letter continued. “As a result, thousands of children have been handed over to modern-day slave traders. They are forced into factory work under punishing conditions. They are forced to make auto parts, process meat in slaughterhouses, and reroof houses. They are denied food, education, and sometimes fear for their lives. They suffer sexual violence. In a country that claims to value the rule of law and the protection of children, this is unconscionable.”
Hawley noted that the widespread problem “plainly violates both the Fair Labor Standards Act, which prohibits the abuse of underage workers, and the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, which designates human trafficking offenses as federal crimes.”
The senator said that a “full-scale” effort was needed to locate the children, bring traffickers to justice, and hold administration officials accountable “for their role in facilitating the exploitation of these children, in violation of the law.”
You're the one who asked:
So I answered. Are you seriously unable to follow the discussion?
And in doing so, He reaffirmed the death penalty, even for those who dishonor their father and mother.
Get it? JESUS AFFIRMED THE DEATH PENALTY.
You go against Him by saying we shouldn't put people to death for capital crimes.
There's no twist. Only you avoiding what is clearly stated.
Wrong.
It's talking about everyone.
The saints (in this passage, at least) are the ones who were killed, murdered.
John writes, speaking of the murderers, "he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword."
It's not an observation. It's a command.
It's not "he who kills with the sword will be killed by the sword."
It's "MUST BE" killed. It's a callback to Genesis 9:6...
You clearly aren't able to.
Read it again.
Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood.And I heard the angel of the waters saying: “You are righteous, O Lord, The One who is and who was and who is to be, Because You have judged these things.For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, And You have given them blood to drink. For it is their just due.” - Revelation 16:4-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation16:4-6&version=NKJV
The holy angel is calling God righteous for judging. He then states, regarding the wicked, "they have shed the blood of saints," and "their just due" is that God gave them blood to drink... Their own.
The Lord commanded, all the way back in Genesis:
“Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man. - Genesis 9:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis9:6&version=NKJV
Why do you go against Him?
There's no twist.
When they are being justly punished for a crime, yes.
Again PAUL AFFIRMED THE DEATH PENALTY:
So Paul said, “I stand at Caesar’s judgment seat, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you very well know.For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is nothing in these things of which these men accuse me, no one can deliver me to them. I appeal to Caesar.” - Acts 25:10-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts25:10-11&version=NKJV
Paul was indeed martyred.
But we rightly understand his specific execution to be unjust, because Scripture tells us that the Jews were trying to kill him, because what He preached was so different.
Putting someone who is guilty of murder to death, on the other hand, is just.
God commanded that they be put to death. God does not command injustice.
Quit with your nonsense.
You asked for verses that support capital punishment, I'm giving them to you.
Answer this:
What does "give place to wrath" mean?
Your question is not directed at me, but at Paul.
But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. - 1 Timothy 1:8-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy1:8-11&version=NKJV
Your confusion is a result of your stubbornness.
It doesn't matter.
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. - Romans 13:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans13:1-5&version=NKJV
1) All authority comes from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by Him.
2) Whoever resists the authority resists God's ordinance, and will bring judgement upon themselves.
3) Rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil.
4) A ruler is God's minister to you for good.
5) A ruler does not bear the sword (What is a sword used for? Beating? Plowing fields? No, it's used to kill people.) in vain, because he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on criminals.
I asked you above, "What does it mean to 'give place to wrath'?"
It means "let the government deal with the criminal," because a ruler is "an avenger to execute wrath" who "does not use the sword in vain."
Meaning, the government should deal with criminals justly, even putting them to death, when required, because such is "God's ordinance."
We aren't, but the rest of the world is.
And while we are still on this earthly plane of existence...
Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing.Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. - Romans 13:5-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans13:5-7&version=NKJV
Prayer isn't going to stop the man from murdering the person in front of you.
Are you going to just get down on your knees and start praying?
Or will you use the gun to kill the man who is trying to kill an innocent person in front of you?
You have a means to prevent the crime from being committed, and you choose not to use it to defend the innocent?
You're not loving at all!
What you've shown is not kindness. It's pride. It's a refusal to acknowledge when you're wrong.
Repent, hoping, before it's too late.
See above.
So why did He reaffirm putting someone to death who does not honor their father and mother?
If I were a judge over a case of adultery, I would not show mercy, because, as I am under the authority of the government, who is God's minister, 1) the ones committing adultery have brought judgement upon themselves by committing such a crime, 2) the government does not bear the sword in vain.
No, he didn't. David died of old age.
Certainl not for his adultery.
You don't think, period.
Or, you're just conflating things again.
Jesus forgiving the adulteress was in the Old Testament?
Because that's what you were responding to...
God was the one who instituted the death penalty. Are you calling Him wicked?
Oh, and something I keep forgetting to point out...
God had FORBIDDEN the death penalty (and law in general) before. Guess how it turned out.
To individuals.
Not to governments.
And the Sermon on the Mount was in regards to the coming Kingdom of Israel, NOT in how believers today should act.
Clearly not...
More false humility.
Why'd you stop there?
Keep reading:
Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the Lord. - Isaiah 26:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah26:10&version=NKJV
A man of great wrath will suffer punishment; For if you rescue him, you will have to do it again. - Proverbs 19:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs19:19&version=NKJV
Supra.
Prisoner rehabilitation has been shown to not work.
God said to put criminals guilty of capital crimes to death, to corporally punish those guilty of assault, and to force criminals to pay restitution for those they have stolen from.
Why do you think you can come up with a better solution than He did?
Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the Lord. - Isaiah 26:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah26:10&version=NKJV
A man of great wrath will suffer punishment; For if you rescue him, you will have to do it again. - Proverbs 19:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs19:19&version=NKJV
7djengo7
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You really should read more carefully what I wrote.