Creation vs. Evolution

[Hedshaker]

Dear hedshaker,

How can a 'blind' nature be? When a tornado touches one house and leaves the next untouched? When it rains on one side of the street and not the other? When it tells the deciduous trees it's time to change their leaves color? When it leaves a bone-dry, atheist Africa without rain, but keeps the believers usually with the best weather and good crops? You can't think it's all just magical or just happens when it wants to.

Nonsense! Nature is totally blind. She cares not a witt for what happens. Your God is a cherished belief, nature is real.

Dear hedshaker,

That's good and cool. Because there is no Mother Nature. It is God doing it all. Missed chatting with you. I guess we are destined to dispute?? Or perhaps maybe someday, to agree?

Much Love and God's Best!!

MichaelC

There is no evidece for anything beyond what is natural. Maybe we could agree. Reality always becons. Just reach out and grab Michael, that's all it takes

 

[noguru]

Michael, just a suggestion, but perhaps you should think your logic through a little more thoroughly before you post again.

:chuckle:

 

[noguru]

Dear hedshaker,

How can a 'blind' nature be? When a tornado touches one house and leaves the next untouched? When it rains on one side of the street and not the other? When it tells the deciduous trees it's time to change their leaves color? When it leaves a bone-dry, atheist Africa without rain, but keeps the believers usually with the best weather and good crops? You can't think it's all just magical or just happens when it wants to.

Being Kind, and May God Be With You,

MichaelC

What exactly would you expect from nature if it were blind?

 

[gcthomas]

Dear gcthomas,

One is a best-seller and the other isn't.

God Bless You and Yours,

Michael

Hmmm. Big Brother is a best-seller tv programme, but that doesn't make it good.

 

[gcthomas]

Dear hedshaker,

How can a 'blind' nature be? When a tornado touches one house and leaves the next untouched? When it rains on one side of the street and not the other?

Tornados and rain showers have physical limits and so have an edge. There will always be a place that got wet next to one that stayed dry. EVERY shower EVER.

When it tells the deciduous trees it's time to change their leaves color?

That can be done to plants by controllong the temperature and light level in a green house to get out of season vegetables. No mystery there.

When it leaves a bone-dry, atheist Africa without rain,

Atheist Africa? Huh?

but keeps the believers usually with the best weather and good crops?

But that just doesn't happen, since you just made the fact up without embarrassment.

You can't think it's all just magical or just happens when it wants to.

Not magical. Agreed. But your God is magical, isn't it? Why do you reject the blind forces of nature in all your examples?

 

[Silent Hunter]

Why do you reject the blind forces of nature in all your examples?

Michael doesn't "believe" in nature . . . :chuckle:.

 

[dave3712]

...the world is inside our head....

...the world is inside our head....

'Spirit' is the substance of which all creation is born from and subsists in, a living energy and consciousness which includes all existence within dimension and without dimension - This living energy-consciousness includes 'no-thing' (the incorporeal) and 'every-thing'(corporeal existence/forms).

From a metaphysical perspective as I've shared earlier here...all there is is 'creation' while 'evolution' is just creation in motion. All existing 'potentials' and 'actuals' are forever existing within 'Creation',....and unfolding themselves by way of the laws of expression.

Life IS. - what we see as a play of energy, mind, spirit, consciousness, matter....is creation's dance. ( Shiva drumming the worlds into and out of existence, thru endless cycles of birth, disintegration, rebirth). Here the Hindu view correlates with conventional science and cosmology, from a 'spirit-energy' base and context.


View attachment 18195

Nataraja


Infinite Spirit is the Living-energy-consciousness which pervades the Universe apart from which nothing could exist, so that all movements of cause-effect are a phenomena that arises in this great Sea of Consciousness. Existence itself, cognizant as the 'Self'(awareness) is its own evidence, which is the primal 'science', since all 'knowing' and 'knowledge' originates within this pure awareness. All that is....exists and appears within this context. Outside of consciousness, nothing exists, even though we may consider a extraordinary state prior to ordinary consciousness, which the great sages refer to as 'Parabrahman' or 'The Absolute' which is beyond knowledge altogether, but the source of all knowing. When the mind dives into its heart-source, the ordinary ego dissolves, and there is only the one universal Supreme consciousness. "I" am that, while the 'mind' takes itself to be a 'personality', 'body' or 'ego-construct' which is but an 'illusion' or 'assumption' superimposed upon awareness.

Non-duality (there is only One all-pervading consciousness)



pj

All that these writers were trying to tell you is that we have each used the sensory information we have been receiving since birth.

Each of us has created inside our mind a "picture" of what we have accepted as the actual Real World external to our thinking.
We are all wrong for the most part, as time has revealed the world to be quite different than what the ancients believed, and still, somewhat a mystery to us, too.

Jesus personified the idea of Truth, which would mean thinking which corresponds to the actual world, and hence, Truth creates all things for us.

 

[noguru]

All that these writers were trying to tell you is that we have each used the sensory information we have been receiving since birth.

Each of us has created inside our mind a "picture" of what we have accepted as the actual Real World external to our thinking.
We are all wrong for the most part, as time has revealed the world to be quite different than what the ancients believed, and still, somewhat a mystery to us, too.

Jesus personified the idea of Truth, which would mean thinking which corresponds to the actual world, and hence, Truth creates all things for us.

Which is why we as Christians should not be proud of willful ignorance. And why some contributors here are problematic in regard to their claims of being a Christian. Faith is not willful ignorance.

 

[dave3712]

...Mother Nature is an ancient god revered by women tothis day...

...Mother Nature is an ancient god revered by women tothis day...

Out side of new age pagan flim flam the term "Mother Nature" is no more than an old saying of endearment that has no meaning in reality.

Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger!

 

[dave3712]

...Father Nature is The Facts of Life".... ie, Reality

...Father Nature is The Facts of Life".... ie, Reality

So your god decides which house to destroy? Which small child to get cancer? Which old person to get Alzheimer's?

And trees change color based on chemistry and physics.

As far as Africa goes I believe there are many, many Christians there. Do the droughts only happen in the non-Christian areas? Are the Christian areas all green and lush?

Michael, go back on your meds. We will all be happier.

Isa 45:7
I, (almighty Reality), form the light, and create darkness:
I, (both Friend and Foe of the living), make peace, and create (the environment for possible great misfortune), evil:
I, (both Friend and Foe to life and man), the LORD, (of the living), do all these things, (naturally, through the environmental forces).

 

[dave3712]

..."and the spirit of god moved across the waters"...

..."and the spirit of god moved across the waters"...

Dear Dave3712,

So now, instead of a God, we have a god named Schechinah, the 'spirit'. What are you trying to say here. That's it's another spirit besides God. The spirit is a spirit, whether you want to call it God or God.

God Be With You,

Michael

From the very beginning, God acts through the spirit we have come to call his Natural Laws...

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, (a spinning cloud of dust and gases) and void: (not yet valid as a planet; it is an accretion disk), and darkness:[choshek: obscurity] was upon the face of the deep: [tehowm: the deep primeval abyss of rotating molten matter].

And (the great Shechinah), the spirit, (i.e.; the pan-en-theistic Natural Laws) of God moved upon the face: [paniym: presence] of the "waters" (i.e.; the molten transitory rotating pieces of matter ringing around the Sun: [mayim: Hebrew])

 

[freelight]

Bubbles

Bubbles

Michael doesn't "believe" in nature . . . :chuckle:.

'Nature' is fundamental in this space-time dimension of material reality, yet consistencies of 'nature' may also exist in other dimensions as well, in some ways allegorically related to this realm of natural laws and movements. It is that greater expanse of the invisible realm underlying this one or existing parallel to it that a greater psychic continuum or 'spiritual' dimension of existence may exist, since the material realm is not proven to be the only reality

Since there are things we do 'know' and much we dont 'know' we cannot absolutely rule out the greater 'psychic' and 'spiritual' dimensions of existence, let alone the greater cosmic continuum of infinity extending way beyond our own little 'bubbles' of limited human experience and assumption.


In-joy!



pj

 

[Hedshaker]

Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger!

Honestly, what in the name of reason is the a point to quoting bible verses at people who do not subscribe to your religion? You might as well throw monkey bones around in a tasteful little grass skirt number :spam:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

All that I do know is that God told me to write to a NYC reporter and tell him that He would send 7 inches of snow within 48 hours on the Daily News Bldg. It happened. The reporter was terrified. So I know that God brings the snow and all else. Nobody and nothing else will change my mind. I've seen God in action. Another time, He brought a big electrical storm above a bldg. in Miami Beach for my sake. I went to the police station and told an officer that a lightning bolt would hit the bldg. where Uri Geller was having a conference. The electrical storm came, but I got talked out of it by the devil, saying that people inside would be hurt. So I left from watching the bldg. and went home. I was watching the bldg. from the Temple across the street from it.

Much Love To You All,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear hedshaker,

Leave Dave3712 alone. At least he believes in Someone, not in some thing.

Be Kind,

MichaelC

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear freelight,

Thanks again for your wisdom on Nature. It did not fall on deaf ears. Now does Nature just do what it wants, or does Someone Guide it?

May God Be Your Best Friend,

Michael

 

[Hedshaker]

'Nature' is fundamental in this space-time dimension of material reality, yet consistencies of 'nature' may also exist in other dimensions as well, in some ways allegorically related to this realm of natural laws and movements. It is that greater expanse of the invisible realm underlying this one or existing parallel to it that a greater psychic continuum or 'spiritual' dimension of existence may exist, since the material realm is not proven to be the only reality

The problem is Paulie, just making stuff up, and/or embracing stuff that others have made rarely teaches us anything worth while, even though a stopped watch tells the right time twice a day. Talk of "greater psychic continuum or 'spiritual' dimension of existence" is all very romantic and I understand its allure, I do. But lets not let it cloud our thinking so much that it becomes detrimental to real discovery. We could go on for ever worrying about all manner of things that are "not proven to be the only reality"

Far more productive IMO to delve into the only reality that is available to us. And I have to say (again IMHO) infinitely more interesting and mysterious. I find more excitement in the launch of a new telescope or discovering the likes of higgs boson particle than ever I could listening to the drowning on and on about some supposed invisible psychic realm.... no offence

Since there are things we do 'know' and much we dont 'know' we cannot absolutely rule out the greater 'psychic' and 'spiritual' dimensions of existence, let alone the greater cosmic continuum of infinity extending way beyond our own little 'bubbles' of limited human experience and assumption.

We can't rule anything out any more than we should rule anything in simply because we like it. The method for discovery we have developed in recent centuries has been the most successful in human history. I don't see that changing any time soon.

Final note: there is no such thing as theistic evolution, only the science of evolution.

Just my thoughts, No offence intended. All the best......

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear hedshaker,

Leave Dave3712 alone. At least he believes in Someone, not in some thing.

Be Kind,

MichaelC

When did you become a moderator? It's not your place to tell other members what they should and shouldn't post.

You'll forgive me for not taking seriously a request to "Be Kind" from one who has spent much of this thread damming those who disagree with you to hell.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear hedshaker,

What do you think of that 1.8 million year old human skull they found here near Tucson, AZ?? I know Lucy was suppose to be 3.5 million years old. But I don't know if Lucy was a human skull, possibly hominid. I told you that the Lord God has made Adam many times over. Well, that's all I'll say for now.

You take care dude!!

MichaelC

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear All,

All that I do know is that God told me to write to a NYC reporter and tell him that He would send 7 inches of snow within 48 hours on the Daily News Bldg. It happened. The reporter was terrified. So I know that God brings the snow and all else. Nobody and nothing else will change my mind. I've seen God in action. Another time, He brought a big electrical storm above a bldg. in Miami Beach for my sake. I went to the police station and told an officer that a lightning bolt would hit the bldg. where Uri Geller was having a conference. The electrical storm came, but I got talked out of it by the devil, saying that people inside would be hurt. So I left from watching the bldg. and went home. I was watching the bldg. from the Temple across the street from it.

Much Love To You All,

Michael

Don't you think if your God did exist he might have more important stuff to be getting on with? Or maybe playing parlour tricks is more fun than saving helpless children from disease and starvation :sigh: