Creation vs. Evolution

[freelight]

The 'god-particle'.......taking flight......

The 'god-particle'.......taking flight......

Far more productive IMO to delve into the only reality that is available to us. And I have to say (again IMHO) infinitely more interesting and mysterious. I find more excitement in the launch of a new telescope or discovering the likes of higgs boson particle than ever I could listening to the drowning on and on about some supposed invisible psychic realm.... no offence

Did you see our former threads on the higgs boson particle here & here, as possibly being the 'God-particle'?

I know some think the word 'God' should be kept out of things,...but thats pretty hard to do sometimes. Those of who are more pantheistic however, are a bit more 'flexible' with giving 'God' some wiggle room

Then there are those of us who see 'God' in more impersonal terms, such as 'Energy', 'Consciousness', 'Spirit', 'Life'...which can take on 'personality'(or not)...since energy and consciousness inter-associate, so include all aspects, attributes and characteristics of sentient being.

As far as we know....there is consciousness. 'God' either is merely a 'concept' that arises in consciousness, or is the very source and substance of that consciousness, which includes all concepts. So it comes back to there being a 'universal energy and mind' at the heart of all reality, apart from which nothing can exist. Consciousness is the common demoninator.




pj

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear hedshaker,

That's what I mean. Pop, an eye is made. God caused the eye to be made. He made the eyes of all living creatures and humans. It's not so very hard to understand unless you don't believe in Him, Who has had a best-selling-ever book written about Him and to Him many people navigate, to say the least. It is your pride that keeps you from believing there is a real God, because you don't want to be wrong in front of your fellows.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear freelight,

I am very proud of your last post no. 709. Thanks so very much!! Why are there so many books written of about God? And the best-selling book, the Bible. So many people of the earth lean towards that belief and that book, there must be something to it. Not as many lean towards a book about Darwin, etc. Don't you all think it's odd??

Keep dying, just to be right. What a shame.

To the unbelievers, what a sham,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

MichaelCadry who seem to prefer willful ignorance of science, due to previous religious convictions, over honest and rigorous research in science. But let us not throw the baby of imagination out with the bathwater of deductive reasoning gained from the current empirical set in science.

Dear noguru,

I don't prefer willful ignorance of science and know enough about science to know there is a lot of science that makes sense and the same of chemistry. I believe God is the master of Chemistry, thus being able to make a human out of the dust of the ground, or those atoms and molecules found in it. I believe in Science and Chemistry, so don't get me wrong.

Thanks!

 

[MichaelCadry]

But hedshaker,

Yes, bam, the eye is created after God's image. In the image of God made He man. Let us create man in our image. God knew what He was doing when He 'made' the eye of a man.

Trust me for a change.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

I think what makes you most uncomfortable about me is that I am telling the truth and the reality of it, and you can't escape from it. I believe in science, like a hummingbird having her babies and feeding them, etc., but as far as Who Created or 'Formed' that hummingbird, I know it is God. So I believe in science. Just not how you wish I would. In other words, science WITHOUT a GOD. Not going to happen.

I'm not your little Michael who says everything that no one wants to hear or bear. I'm your Michael who speaks truth to those who can't handle it.

RIP,
Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear hedshaker,

I do not say that you can't have your own mind and believe what you want. I'm just saying that, if you exclude your Maker out of that equation, you're going to fall short. Do I need to explain 'fall short' again to you? What don't you understand about your Maker, except you don't believe He exists. You are a piece of work indeed. You can all believe what you want. I don't mind. It's not like I'm forcing you to believe MY way. I'm just telling you what I know and then letting you make up your own mind about it. God and Jesus have been around a lot longer than any of you.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,
Dear hedshaker,

I'm not trying to drive you into any religion. Just acknowledge the God Who gives you the right to even live right now. Who helps you take your next breath. It isn't Mama Nature, it's your Maker, Our Lord God. That should set well with you.

MC

 

[Sealeaf]

Boring

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Sealeaf,

Thank God!

Michael

 

[noguru]

MichaelCadry who seem to prefer willful ignorance of science, due to previous religious convictions, over honest and rigorous research in science. But let us not throw the baby of imagination out with the bathwater of deductive reasoning gained from the current empirical set in science.

Dear noguru,

I don't prefer willful ignorance of science and know enough about science to know there is a lot of science that makes sense and the same of chemistry. I believe God is the master of Chemistry, thus being able to make a human out of the dust of the ground, or those atoms and molecules found in it. I believe in Science and Chemistry, so don't get me wrong.

Thanks!

Michael, you keep saying you understand science, but the content of your posts does not demonstrate that. Why exactly would I have any confidence in you on that matter?

 

[Ben Masada]

Dear Ben Masada,

Good for you! I am with you on this. Prepare for an onslaught of atheists to pervade this thread. They work in packs, like wolves. Beware.

Much Love in God,

Michael

Well, they are a misinformed people with a pride bigger than their mind.

 

[Ben Masada]

Where do you get this rather daft idea that atheists claim to be sure of what is not known?
Atheists don't have to provide answers or try to convince you of a supposed alternative "Truth", they usually are well aware that they don't actually have any, unlike religionists perhaps. Atheists may however ask believers to explain their claims, supposed answers and what might make believers so sure, usually to no avail in my experience.
The whole point about unknowns is that you can't claim to be sure of anything other that it is unknown. Putting faith in a supposed cause as an explanation is what religionists do, I can't and don't put any faith in an unknown, it would be pointless and rather silly imo.

That God does not exist I am tired of having to explain to their fallacious assertions that they are sure of. Even the possibility to apply the concept of probability that perhaps they are wrong they resist. Furthermore they have no concern for logical thought as long as it pertains to the possibility that they are wrong.

 

[Ben Masada]

Believe what you want. Einstein clearly was not a theist and said as much, numerous times.

You surly are more confused than ever. How can anyone be sure of what they don't know? Sounds like a oxymoron.

That surety can come through Logic and that's what you are unable to grasp. True that Einstein was not a theist of a personal God which is a very natural position. Jesus himself said that God is a Spiritual Being. Read John 4:24. How can a Spirit be personal? You are trying to adulterate Einsteins' words without grasping the meaning of what he said. Is this a sign of jealousy because that great man could not be an atheist? Sorry, the man was Jewish.

 

[Ben Masada]

It seems you have a problem with why there is a God at all. If god caused everything else, why is there a God rather than no God? Where did that huge complex existence originate? Why?

I CAN conceive of a self consistent non-caused, finite universe. I have no way of knowing if is a true conception, but the thought of such a thing does not fill me with horror. And if you accept an existence without a cause, as you seem to, why can't the Universe be uncaused instead of a god?

Your question does not make any sense but I am going to try to answer it. It happens that the universe is composed of matter and it has been proven as a fact of everyday life that matter has a beginning and an end. Therefore it is only obvious that the universe had a beginning. Besides, the majority of scientists especially astrophysicists are unanimous at adopting the BB as the closest-to-the-truth step ever achieved for the beginning of the universe albeit their missing to quote the great theist George Lemaitre as the author of the theory. There is no logical argument to assert that the universe was not caused. Therefore the Creator simply becomes obvious. Someone or Something had to cause the universe to exist.

 

[Jukia]

But hedshaker,

Yes, bam, the eye is created after God's image. In the image of God made He man. Let us create man in our image. God knew what He was doing when He 'made' the eye of a man.

Trust me for a change.

does god have an eye? eyes? are human eyes like god's eyes?

 

[Ben Masada]

Yes, Einstein and Spinoza agreed as do I, that what people have called by the word "God" is an inexplicable Shechinah, the spirit of the interactive web of Natural Laws, which is the force behind the instantaneous and ever changing next frame of Reality within which we exist and are nurtured.

Behold! I can finally say I totally agree with you on this one. "Call hacavod" Dave! I couldn't have said it better.

 

[Ben Masada]

Dear Dave3712,

So now, instead of a God, we have a god named Schechinah, the 'spirit'. What are you trying to say here. That's it's another spirit besides God. The spirit is a spirit, whether you want to call it God or God.

God Be With You,

Michael

Take it easy Michael! Dave used the right term in Hebrew for the presence of the Almighty in the Holy of holies in the Temple to mean that HaShem (Jehovah) would inhabit among His people on a permanently basis even when they were exiled into other lands. The Schechinah would follow God's People into exile as the Everlasting Righteousness according to Daniel 9:24.

 

[gcthomas]

Your question does not make any sense but I am going to try to answer it. It happens that the universe is composed of matter and it has been proven as a fact of everyday life that matter has a beginning and an end.

Matter makes up only a small fraction of the universe, so the behaviour of matter specifically does not impact on discussions about the universe as a whole, which is more to do with the relations between matter, light and the fundamental forces.

Therefore it is only obvious that the universe had a beginning.

That's the argument?! "It's obvious." Sheesh, I had hoped you would come up with something a little more thoughtful than that.

Besides, the majority of scientists especially astrophysicists are unanimous at adopting the BB as the closest-to-the-truth step ever achieved for the beginning of the universe albeit their missing to quote the great theist George Lemaitre as the author of the theory.

Lamaitre is quite properly known by scientists as the father of the big bang theory, so imputing the honesty of physicists for ignoring his contribution leaves you smelling of dishonesty in this discussion. Lamaitre himself insisted that the big bang theory left no room for knowing God and that it allowed materialists to deny the necessity of a God.

There is no logical argument to assert that the universe was not caused.

No assertion was made by myself or others in this thread to that effect. Could you please limit yourself to criticising things that have actually been said?

Therefore the Creator simply becomes obvious. Someone or Something had to cause the universe to exist.

Merely an assertion without either clear logic or evidence to support it.

And I note that you still seem happy to insist both that the universe needed an existential cause while the creator did not. Where is the logic now?

 

[alwight]

That God does not exist I am tired of having to explain to their fallacious assertions that they are sure of. Even the possibility to apply the concept of probability that perhaps they are wrong they resist.

Firstly why specifically would claiming that God does not exist be any more fallacious than claiming the opposite?
Special pleading perhaps negates any fallacy on your side somehow?

But do atheists really assert this to you, that gods don't exist? I doubt it.
Who here has ever claimed that kind of knowledge, not me btw.
I at least am not sure that no gods exist, I simply don't claim to know.
Even specific gods or God of religions could, I suppose, perhaps exist, though I personally doubt that very much, but along with most other atheists in my experience I am also agnostic and don't claim to know and tend to lean decidedly towards disbelieve rather than belief, but where does anyone's claimed absolute certainty either way come from? Search me. :idunno:

Furthermore they have no concern for logical thought as long as it pertains to the possibility that they are wrong.

Let's put generalising about all atheists to one side for a moment, do you claim to know that God exists or are you somewhat of an agnostic theist and thus prepared to some extent to be wrong? Just as I am prepared to be wrong on my side of the fence? However theists in my experience don't usually want to admit to having any such doubts.