gcthomas
New member
When used as an intransitive verb, conceive usually means to form or hold an idea. I can conceive that you are in need of a dictionary. :up:
Creation vs. Evolution
- Thread starter MichaelCadry
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When used as an intransitive verb, conceive usually means to form or hold an idea. I can conceive that you are in need of a dictionary. :up:
You all make me laugh! The joke will be sorely upon each of you in the near future, especially those who call themselves Christian. I'm not going to waste my time with people who have mush for brains. You think because Darwin or Einstein were atheists, that's proof. Jesus thought the opposite, and He was greater than Darwin or Einstein by far. God doesn't want any of you to understand because He would rather not save you, evidently. Your destiny must be predetermined for things you've done in past lifetimes. He doesn't want you, plain and simple. That's the only explanation, because I know He's there and you don't. So I try to figure out why and this is all I can dome up with. Once again, I've been wasting my time, but no more.
Let Sleeping Dogs Lie,
MichaelCadry
Let Sleeping Dogs Lie,
MichaelCadry
noguru
Well-known member
:shocked:
:think:
:chuckle:
Great argument.
Do you actually think such an argument is compelling?
You believe in a self-created matter and universe, but not in a self-created God. Well, the matter and the universe won't chastise you like the self-created God will. You will learn to respect Him whether you like it or not or whether you believe in Him or not. You think you're escaping something because I've given up on you. I've just left you in the hands of someone bigger and more powerful than myself.
Buena suerte!
MichaelC
Buena suerte!
MichaelC
noguru
Well-known member
To who are you referring?
You've left who in the hands of someone bigger and more powerful than you?
Are you claiming that you somehow had some hand in my belief in God?
If I were not a Christian before witnessing your posts here, your posts certainly would have convinced me to convert. I have absolutely no confidence in anything you post. I don't care if you call yourself a Christian or not.
You see in my opinion you are one of those people who walks around in a haze of virtual incompetence, and you have chosen the label Christian to compensate for that. I don't even have confidence in you about that.
I'm referring to the atheists among you who don't believe me, and of course, I'm referring to God being more powerful. Did you really have to ask? You think I should be kind ALL of the time. Didn't Elijah curse the children calling him, "thou bald head" and a bear came and ate them?
noguru
Well-known member
Michael I say this because I am concerned for you, not out of meanness; "You need to address your own ineptitude before trying to help others." God will get along fine without your inept efforts. You are only muddying up the waters with your efforts.
alwight
New member
I keep getting suspicious of you Michael that you're perhaps a little bit too "bad" to be true?
I don't know if perhaps you're simply trolling or think you can sell your book that you keep linking to?
I really don't care how unkind you are, please be mean as you like if it helps, just as long as what you say makes some kind of rational and reasonable sense and not just your vacuous, and seemingly delusional, assertions.
... 12 boys and the circus elephant behind the fence...?
... 12 boys and the circus elephant behind the fence...?
The "demon" is intolerance.
The twelve boys peering through holes in a fence all see part of the elephant and use that information to describe the beast who they, themselves, have never actually seen.
All 12 boys have a different "perspective" but the evil is they will NOT add what they saw to what the others think and hence, discover the truth.
Instead, they argue.
... 12 boys and the circus elephant behind the fence...?
The "demon" is intolerance.
The twelve boys peering through holes in a fence all see part of the elephant and use that information to describe the beast who they, themselves, have never actually seen.
All 12 boys have a different "perspective" but the evil is they will NOT add what they saw to what the others think and hence, discover the truth.
Instead, they argue.
noguru
Well-known member
This is an example of how a number of individual subjective perspectives can be gathered to approach a better description of the objective reality. Previously I have covered this exact principle, but some people reject even that idea for their myopic and singular subjective perspective. Hence their inability to communicate clearly to others, and/or their own self-delusion.
Dear noguru,
I have shared what I have seen, and you have all shared what you have seen, and we have not come up with seeing the whole elephant. There is no self-delusion with me, but instead, tired of trying to tell you what part I have seen and having you deny it. I leave it all in God's Hands completely now. I have done all I can and I am finished with it. Talk to God, not me. Amen.
MichaelC
I have shared what I have seen, and you have all shared what you have seen, and we have not come up with seeing the whole elephant. There is no self-delusion with me, but instead, tired of trying to tell you what part I have seen and having you deny it. I leave it all in God's Hands completely now. I have done all I can and I am finished with it. Talk to God, not me. Amen.
MichaelC
noguru
Well-known member
Michael I will think about what you said. Thanks
Dear noguru,
Thanks so much!! You're very welcome!!!
In Christ's Love,
Michael
Thanks so much!! You're very welcome!!!
In Christ's Love,
Michael
noguru
Well-known member
No problem, will you do the same?
Dear noguru,
I already have.
Praise God!!
Michael
I already have.
Praise God!!
Michael
..sharing what we have seen is good...
..sharing what we have seen is good...
So often insisting that we have seen the whole elephant, then virtually silencing what others have seen is analogous to to the State-of-the-Art in theology.
Better than during the Middle Ages, of course, but still terrible throughout Islam, the Christian churches have collected tithe payers they are now dependent upon economically.
One church preaches different ideas which are used competitively, so the repression of discussion and the dishonest defense for various doctrines refuse to see the elephant in the room.
Did it matter what doctrines or theology Rev Martin Luther King acknowledged when he used the Truth to set his Black Americans free?
..sharing what we have seen is good...
So often insisting that we have seen the whole elephant, then virtually silencing what others have seen is analogous to to the State-of-the-Art in theology.
Better than during the Middle Ages, of course, but still terrible throughout Islam, the Christian churches have collected tithe payers they are now dependent upon economically.
One church preaches different ideas which are used competitively, so the repression of discussion and the dishonest defense for various doctrines refuse to see the elephant in the room.
Did it matter what doctrines or theology Rev Martin Luther King acknowledged when he used the Truth to set his Black Americans free?
Christ said he was The Truth, which I take literally and recognize as the Ideal which he personified as a concept that can, will, and has saved men personally, and as a species.
We need Truth to recognize the threat to human existence by Atomic weapons and/or extinction from a cataclysmic events like meteors or Ebola, etc.
As in modern science, many different views add incrementally to what know and understand. So, in each of the denomination churches, in Judaism, even in Islam we can and ought see things that add as we over look what doesn't add up.
For example, even in Islam, the rejection of Christ doesn't add up, but the good example of sexual prudence does.
Dear dave3712,
Yep, I hate to see this thread die when it still can be so insightful about Creation and evolution. And also, not only Islam, but also Judaism, the rejection of Christ does not add up. But they will love Him when He returns. They just weren't brought up to believe in Him like some of us were. We are, by far, the luckiest!! Thank God so much that I am a Christian and have had a wonderful mother who let us go to a Nazarene Church, even though my Dad was a Muslim. My Dad switched from Islam to Christianity when my mom died. We gave him a Christian service, as he asked us. Life is so wonderful.
God Bless You Tons, Dave3712,
Michael
Yep, I hate to see this thread die when it still can be so insightful about Creation and evolution. And also, not only Islam, but also Judaism, the rejection of Christ does not add up. But they will love Him when He returns. They just weren't brought up to believe in Him like some of us were. We are, by far, the luckiest!! Thank God so much that I am a Christian and have had a wonderful mother who let us go to a Nazarene Church, even though my Dad was a Muslim. My Dad switched from Islam to Christianity when my mom died. We gave him a Christian service, as he asked us. Life is so wonderful.
God Bless You Tons, Dave3712,
Michael
...all three monotheistic believers will need adjust to the Truth...
...all three monotheistic believers will need adjust to the Truth...
You are a good person and faith in Jesus has its own reward.
These different insights we all hold on to are not important if we do not use them against one another.
We are all of the one bread, faith in god and his being.
But the shock and earthquake which is now hitting all these believers is that Christ was the Elijah.
This will transform Jews, embarrass Muslims, and shock Christians:
The signs in 32AD pointed out that both Elijah and Christ performed essentially the same works. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, tradition has always told the Jews to look for the same kinds of miracles again, in order to identify The Elijah when he would re-appear in the future.
1) Both Elijah and Christ raised the dead:
1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where .Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
2) Both Elijah, who never dies, and Christ were immortal:
2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal
John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
3) Both Elijah and Christ. ascended into Heaven before witnesses:
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talkd, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. .
12..And Elisha saw it,.
Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven
4) Both Elijah and Christ troubled Israel:
1 Kings 18:17 And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?
Matthew 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born..
5) Both Elijah and Christ were threatened by the authorities with death:
1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of I.srael have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and .I. .even I only .am .left..; and they seek my life, to take it away
John 11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death
6) Both Elijah and Christ.... were hunted by the Jewish authorities:
1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away
John 7:25 Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?
7) Both Elijah and Christ.... hid in a cave/tomb:
1 Kings 19:9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth...
8) Both Elijah and Christ pondered in the wilderness 40 days and forty nights:....
1 Kings 19:8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God
Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
9) Both Elijah and Christ. walked on across the water
2 Kings 2:8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground
Matthew 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea
10) Both Elijah and Christ let a person follow them across the water:
2 Kings 2:14.. And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over
Matthew 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water to go to Jesus.
11) Both Elijah and Christ.... wrote only one thing, a letter, to people on Earth AFTER they had ascended:
2 Chronicles 21:12 And there came a writing to him from ..Elijah.. the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
12) Both Elijah and Christ appointed a successor, Elisha, by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ:
2 Kings 2:9.. And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And ..Elisha.. said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me
Matthew 16:18.. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this .rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
13) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to raise the dead:
2 Kings 8:5.. And it came to pass, as he was telling the king how he had restored a dead body to life, that, behold, the woman, whose son he had restored to life, cried to the king for her house and for her land. And Gehazi said, My lord, O king, this is the woman, and this is her son, whom ..Elisha.. restored to life.
Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and ..prayed..; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up
14) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to heal:
2 Kings 5:10.. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean
Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk
15) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak to one, the keys to the other:
1 Kings 19:19.. So he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen before him, and he with the twelfth: and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him.
Matthew 16:19.. And I will give unto thee the keys.of the kingdom.. of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven
16) Both Elijah and Christ. asked that the this "cup" be taken from them:
1Kings 19:4 .But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die (because he was afraid of what was coming from Jezebel: [1Kings 19:3]), and said, "It is enough (they seek my life, to take it away: [1Kings 19:10]); now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers."
Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, (because he began to show grief and distress of mind and was deeply depressed: [Matt 26:37]), let this cup pass from me (It is enough: [1Kings 19:4]): nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
17) Both Elijah and Christ are said to have had miraculous births:
Jewish Encyclopedia:
Three different theories regarding Elijah's origin are presented in the Haggadah: Mention must be made of a statement which, though found only in the later cabalistic literature (Yal?u? Reubeni, Bereshit, 9a, ed. Amsterdam), seems nevertheless to be very old (see Epiphanius, l.c.), and according to which Elijah was an angel in human form, so that he had neither parents nor offspring.
See also Melchizedek.
Matthew1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
18) Both Elijah and Christ destroyed pagan worshippers and priests. Elijah destroyed the priests of Baal; Christ, the Pantheon of Rome, 380AD:
IKi 18:40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.
History: Universal Christianity in 380AD:
Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years (54AD -1054AD)
19) Both Elijah and Christ were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha in the former and Peter, in the latter.
2 Kings 2:2.. I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel
2 Kings 2:4.. I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho
2 Kings 2:6.. I will not leave thee. And they two went on
John 21:17.. He saith unto him the third time,... "Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, "Lovest thou me?"
20) Both Elijah and Christ. condemned a Jezebel:
2 Kings 9:36 Wherefore they came again, and told him. And he said, This is the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, In the portion of Jezreel shall dogs eat the flesh of Jezebel:
Rev 2:20 ..Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds..
21) Both Elijah and Christ re-dedicated the Israelite people to God by raising up a new altar or temple:
1 Ki 18:30.. And ..Elijah.. said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.
22) Both Elijah and Christ chose one man upon which to build his following:
2 Kings 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and ..upon.. this ..rock.. I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
23) Both Elijah and Christ were subject of a three day 'search' for their presence:
2 Kings 2:1 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send.
They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.
Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
...all three monotheistic believers will need adjust to the Truth...
You are a good person and faith in Jesus has its own reward.
These different insights we all hold on to are not important if we do not use them against one another.
We are all of the one bread, faith in god and his being.
But the shock and earthquake which is now hitting all these believers is that Christ was the Elijah.
This will transform Jews, embarrass Muslims, and shock Christians:
The signs in 32AD pointed out that both Elijah and Christ performed essentially the same works. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, tradition has always told the Jews to look for the same kinds of miracles again, in order to identify The Elijah when he would re-appear in the future.
1) Both Elijah and Christ raised the dead:
1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where .Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
2) Both Elijah, who never dies, and Christ were immortal:
2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal
John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
3) Both Elijah and Christ. ascended into Heaven before witnesses:
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talkd, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. .
12..And Elisha saw it,.
Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven
4) Both Elijah and Christ troubled Israel:
1 Kings 18:17 And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?
Matthew 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born..
5) Both Elijah and Christ were threatened by the authorities with death:
1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of I.srael have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and .I. .even I only .am .left..; and they seek my life, to take it away
John 11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death
6) Both Elijah and Christ.... were hunted by the Jewish authorities:
1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away
John 7:25 Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?
7) Both Elijah and Christ.... hid in a cave/tomb:
1 Kings 19:9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth...
8) Both Elijah and Christ pondered in the wilderness 40 days and forty nights:....
1 Kings 19:8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God
Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
9) Both Elijah and Christ. walked on across the water
2 Kings 2:8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground
Matthew 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea
10) Both Elijah and Christ let a person follow them across the water:
2 Kings 2:14.. And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over
Matthew 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water to go to Jesus.
11) Both Elijah and Christ.... wrote only one thing, a letter, to people on Earth AFTER they had ascended:
2 Chronicles 21:12 And there came a writing to him from ..Elijah.. the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
12) Both Elijah and Christ appointed a successor, Elisha, by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ:
2 Kings 2:9.. And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And ..Elisha.. said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me
Matthew 16:18.. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this .rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
13) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to raise the dead:
2 Kings 8:5.. And it came to pass, as he was telling the king how he had restored a dead body to life, that, behold, the woman, whose son he had restored to life, cried to the king for her house and for her land. And Gehazi said, My lord, O king, this is the woman, and this is her son, whom ..Elisha.. restored to life.
Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and ..prayed..; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up
14) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to heal:
2 Kings 5:10.. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean
Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk
15) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak to one, the keys to the other:
1 Kings 19:19.. So he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen before him, and he with the twelfth: and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him.
Matthew 16:19.. And I will give unto thee the keys.of the kingdom.. of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven
16) Both Elijah and Christ. asked that the this "cup" be taken from them:
1Kings 19:4 .But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die (because he was afraid of what was coming from Jezebel: [1Kings 19:3]), and said, "It is enough (they seek my life, to take it away: [1Kings 19:10]); now, O LORD, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers."
Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, (because he began to show grief and distress of mind and was deeply depressed: [Matt 26:37]), let this cup pass from me (It is enough: [1Kings 19:4]): nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
17) Both Elijah and Christ are said to have had miraculous births:
Jewish Encyclopedia:
Three different theories regarding Elijah's origin are presented in the Haggadah: Mention must be made of a statement which, though found only in the later cabalistic literature (Yal?u? Reubeni, Bereshit, 9a, ed. Amsterdam), seems nevertheless to be very old (see Epiphanius, l.c.), and according to which Elijah was an angel in human form, so that he had neither parents nor offspring.
See also Melchizedek.
Matthew1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
18) Both Elijah and Christ destroyed pagan worshippers and priests. Elijah destroyed the priests of Baal; Christ, the Pantheon of Rome, 380AD:
IKi 18:40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.
History: Universal Christianity in 380AD:
Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years (54AD -1054AD)
19) Both Elijah and Christ were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha in the former and Peter, in the latter.
2 Kings 2:2.. I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel
2 Kings 2:4.. I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho
2 Kings 2:6.. I will not leave thee. And they two went on
John 21:17.. He saith unto him the third time,... "Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, "Lovest thou me?"
20) Both Elijah and Christ. condemned a Jezebel:
2 Kings 9:36 Wherefore they came again, and told him. And he said, This is the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, In the portion of Jezreel shall dogs eat the flesh of Jezebel:
Rev 2:20 ..Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds..
21) Both Elijah and Christ re-dedicated the Israelite people to God by raising up a new altar or temple:
1 Ki 18:30.. And ..Elijah.. said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.
22) Both Elijah and Christ chose one man upon which to build his following:
2 Kings 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and ..upon.. this ..rock.. I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
23) Both Elijah and Christ were subject of a three day 'search' for their presence:
2 Kings 2:1 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send.
They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.
Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
Dear Dave3712,
Thank you for your long, informative post. This does not sway me that the spirit of Elijah came again in John the Baptist. I don't know the exact scriptures, but Jesus' disciples said, 'Isn't is written that Elijah shall come back before you, Lord.' And the Lord Jesus said, 'Elijah (in Spirit) had already came, but you knew him not (speaking of John the Baptist). Hopefully someone knows where this is written in the four gospels of the NT. As for me, I am aware that John the Baptist knew no woman in all his days in the wilderness. There has been no better man born than John the Baptist, except for Jesus.
In God's and Christ's Love,
Michael
Thank you for your long, informative post. This does not sway me that the spirit of Elijah came again in John the Baptist. I don't know the exact scriptures, but Jesus' disciples said, 'Isn't is written that Elijah shall come back before you, Lord.' And the Lord Jesus said, 'Elijah (in Spirit) had already came, but you knew him not (speaking of John the Baptist). Hopefully someone knows where this is written in the four gospels of the NT. As for me, I am aware that John the Baptist knew no woman in all his days in the wilderness. There has been no better man born than John the Baptist, except for Jesus.
In God's and Christ's Love,
Michael
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