Creation vs. Evolution

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Hawkins

Active member
I would suggest then that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how science reaches its conclusions. Unlike religious beliefs it isn't about simply believing in written words typically anonymous and one person witnessing to others. Science is primarily about evidence and the explaining of it, not a belief or faith in a person. Scientific conclusions are presented so that anyone else, in theory, can review them and show them to be false, if indeed they are, based on the same or better evidence. Evidence-free bald assertions are not falsifiable while scientific claims are and can be demonstrated to be wrong if evidentially so. If I read a scientific publication I don't simply believe in the author, I expect there to be plenty of evidence presented to back it up and that it has been subject to peer review.

I think that you have a twisted concept about what science is. Plus that you are confused between how science is verified and how a scientific truth is conveyed.

Science is discovered and verified mostly through its predictability. This requires a lab setup to achieve. The conveying of a scientific truth however is through faith. As it is a very inefficient route if every single individual will have to rely on a lab to verify the truth by himself. The most efficient way for a human to approach such a truth is that they have to have faith in what have been written down by a small group of humans (the scientists). Peer review reports are just yet a form of human witnessing.

In a nutshell, humans rely heavily on what have been written down by a small group of humans thought to be the direct contact of a truth. It is a process of human witnessing.

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To me, humans usually apply fallacious concepts without their own awareness.

Science usually goes through 3 stages to determine a scientific truth,
1) Observation
Science is basically dealing with a set of rules behind a repeating pattern. Observation is achievable basically because the pattern itself can be repeated infinitively. Say, you can observe how the earth revolving around the sun because the number of times the earth revolving the sun is infinitive.*

2) Formulation
Through the possibly infinitive observations, you can develop theories about how it repeats. You can then try to quantitatively describe how it repeats, say, using a formula.

3) Prediction
Prediction is to put your quantitative descriptions (formulated rules) into tests. If they predict correctly, the set of rules discovered/formulated by you is considered a truth (a formal scientific truth). If the prediction fails or doesn’t fail within an acceptable variance (say, due to equipment capability limit), the set of rules you developed is considered falsified.

To simply put a set of rules behind a repeating pattern is considered "proven" when the prediction of the pattern using this set of rules doesn't fail.

For an example, water dissolves into hydrogen and oxygen. This holds true no matter what. That is, you make a prediction (that water must dissolve into H2 and O2) before each and every experiment and that your prediction will never fail. You deserve a Nobel Prize shall your this prediction actually fails.

A human brain thus realizes/recognizes that it is a truth as the numerous predictions never fail.


This is the nature (predictability and falsifiability) of what science is.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Dear 1Mind,

I haven't been dishonest with you.

In Christ's Love,

Michael

You have been dishonest with yerself.

I misread nothing.

You know Alwight brings not the gospel, yet in yer arrogance (or ignorance?) you believe you can tell God to bless his endeavor.

Listen......

I believe you heard from angels.

But rather than asking God and pondering what it meant, you took what man and the world has taught you and tried to apply scripture to you.

You are ensnared.

Proverbs 20:25 KJV
It is a snare to the man who devoureth that which is holy, and after vows to make enquiry .

I speak this to you in meekness.

There are some of us here, who have had the same plank in our own eye.
 

Daedalean's_Sun

New member
The conveying of a scientific truth however is through faith. As it is a very inefficient route if every single individual will have to rely on a lab to verify the truth by himself.

Given that the only alternative is to believe there is a global conspiracy of scientists intentionally attempting to deceive you, I contend the negation of this highly implausible scenario doesn't require faith. That being said, the results of scientific experiments can be replicated or otherwise verified, if not by us then by someone else. It is this verification, that dispels the requirement for faith.




The most efficient way for a human to approach such a truth is that they have to have faith

Considering the exponential diversity of faith-based beliefs over the centuries (i.e. the same method resulting in an increasingly divergent number of conclusions), I would reckon it's demonstrably inefficient. If that is the most efficient approach to discerning truth then we are in serious trouble.
 

alwight

New member
I think that you have a twisted concept about what science is. Plus that you are confused between how science is verified and how a scientific truth is conveyed.
Lead on Macduff

Science is discovered and verified mostly through its predictability. This requires a lab setup to achieve. The conveying of a scientific truth however is through faith.
Not so imo, science is not about proof or absolute truth, it simply attempts to explain the evidence, and to acquire knowledge.
No actual formal "truth" has to be established or believed on trust, and unknowns can just remain as unknowns, not presumed on faith.
But often science is far too well tried in practice to likely be wrong or require any faith. While it continues to predict more evidence and remains un-falsified it will often thus be regarded by many to be reasonably and rationally a virtual truth rather than a formal one. No faith is required because science is allowed to be wrong, it expects to be sometimes and wants to be shown wrong when it is, imo faith here is irrelevant and has no purpose.

As it is a very inefficient route if every single individual will have to rely on a lab to verify the truth by himself. The most efficient way for a human to approach such a truth is that they have to have faith in what have been written down by a small group of humans (the scientists). Peer review reports are just yet a form of human witnessing.
It's nothing to do with having faith in someone's opinion either. What actually matters is whether or not a scientific hypothesis can be falsified, does it always accurately describe the evidence?

Falsification too is not a matter of personal opinion and faith because it requires that something be demonstrably wrong by its own evidence or else it simply remains unchallenged as the best theory. Nobody sagely gets to deem something as proven true by having an opinion however esteemed they are.

In a nutshell, humans rely heavily on what have been written down by a small group of humans thought to be the direct contact of a truth. It is a process of human witnessing.
If what is written down best describes the evidence, has a range of verifiable sources and cannot be falsified by anything then I have no problem with written words. However blind faith in only written words, considering most individual's likelihood of embellishment and exaggeration is hardly very safe imo and would require rather too much faith.

To me, humans usually apply fallacious concepts without their own awareness.
Yes which is what the scientific method is designed to avoid.

Science usually goes through 3 stages to determine a scientific truth,
1) Observation
Science is basically dealing with a set of rules behind a repeating pattern. Observation is achievable basically because the pattern itself can be repeated infinitively. Say, you can observe how the earth revolving around the sun because the number of times the earth revolving the sun is infinitive.*

2) Formulation
Through the possibly infinitive observations, you can develop theories about how it repeats. You can then try to quantitatively describe how it repeats, say, using a formula.

3) Prediction
Prediction is to put your quantitative descriptions (formulated rules) into tests. If they predict correctly, the set of rules discovered/formulated by you is considered a truth (a formal scientific truth). If the prediction fails or doesn’t fail within an acceptable variance (say, due to equipment capability limit), the set of rules you developed is considered falsified.
There's somewhat more to the scientific method as I understand it:
"1.Define a question
2.Gather information and resources (observe)
3.Form an explanatory hypothesis
4.Test the hypothesis by performing an experiment and collecting data in a reproducible manner
5.Analyze the data
6.Interpret the data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
7.Publish results
8.Retest (frequently done by other scientists)"
(From Wiki link above.)


To simply put a set of rules behind a repeating pattern is considered "proven" when the prediction of the pattern using this set of rules doesn't fail.
Again you seem to think that "proven" actually is a scientific goal, it isn't.

For an example, water dissolves into hydrogen and oxygen. This holds true no matter what. That is, you make a prediction (that water must dissolve into H2 and O2) before each and every experiment and that your prediction will never fail. You deserve a Nobel Prize shall your this prediction actually fails.
Some things are just axiomatic from experience and theory and can reasonably be assumed to be true in all circumstances, nothing wrong with that and no faith or trust is needed imo.

A human brain thus realizes/recognizes that it is a truth as the numerous predictions never fail.


This is the nature (predictability and falsifiability) of what science is.
I regard the Theory of Evolution to be truth and a fact, but not by faith. No I can't prove it actually is true, it is simply my belief that would change if something better did come along to describe the evidence. I don't call it a "formal truth" and I don't need faith that it is, I just don't think there could be a better explanation from my own understanding of the evidence and because in over 150 years it has not been falsified by better brains than mine.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Thank you so much for helping. I'm not saying I'm a master yet, but I will give it a venture. I think I understand from what you've posted and what Hedshaker posted to me. Wonderful!!

Much Love To You From God,

MichaelC

:dog:

:zoomin:





---Type your words here---



---Type your words here---



---Type your words here---
[/HTML]

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This above becomes formatted like this:


---Type your words here---


---Type your words here---


---Type your words here---


---Type your words here---

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Michael, try to relate the code and tags in the top box to how it appears in the final version underneath.
 
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MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear Alwight,

Alwight said:
Hey buddy!! Am I doing it right?

How about now?


Does it matter if I used caps or all lower case for the words "Quote"?

God Bless You Greatly, Alwight!!

Michael

How do I do a quote within a quote? Do you know how, by any chance?

I DID IT!!!

Thanks So Much Alwight & Hedshaker!

Michael
 

Hedshaker

New member
I've put you an animated gif that shows clearly how to do it. Spend a few minutes and watch it:

 
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MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Animated is Cool!!

Animated is Cool!!

Hi Hedshaker,

Well thank you for animation. I finally understand how to do quotes. You copy and paste your words between two Quotes, with the ending one starting with a forward slash. Now I've go it. I see that little yellow box above this post. It says Wrap
tags around selected text. That will come in handy also. Thanks so much to you and Alwight for the computer lessons. You know you're in my prayers when I pray kneeling on a pillow every night before I go to bed. I pray that God will love you and that someday, you might understand Him, and that you would be able to change and make it to heaven, and that God might help teach you. Every nite.

God Bless You Both Very Much,

Michael

:box:

;)
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
HI FRIENDS!

HI FRIENDS!

To Freelight, Rusha, Grosnick and 6days. Thanks for your friendship. I have noticed your kind words in my User CP box. I pray for all of you too, on my knees on a prayer pillow before I go to bed. I have a long prayer. Every Night!!

Much Love To All Of You!!!

Michael

;)
 

alwight

New member
How do I do a quote within a quote? Do you know how, by any chance?

I DID IT!!!

Thanks So Much Alwight & Hedshaker!

Michael
Hello Michael,
Quotes within quotes is called "nesting", each inside quote needs to be started and ended within the previous one rather like one of those Russian dolls. It can get complicated even for the experienced so I suggest you keep it simple for now, one quote at a time should get you by.:)
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear Alwight,

With thanks from you and Hedshaker, I've got it. The one thing I don't know how to do is a quote within a guote. (A box within a box). We will have to learn that some other time, because I have to take baby steps first. I will figure all of this out the best I can. What do I do when someone sends me a bunch of quote boxes?? I can't answer them. I have to copy their sentences, and then paste them in my answer box, then answer them. It is all horrifying. I will have to learn slowly. At least I have gotten this far so well.

Let Jesus Be Your Older Brother And Savior!!

Michael
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I don't follow your argument

1. Energy depleted for particle collision
2. ???
3. the next generation will have some mutations when the chemical reaction takes place that makes the germ cells.
3 follows 1 directly. Chemical communication encounters noise when the media of the message follows the SLoT.
 

alwight

New member
What do I do when someone sends me a bunch of quote boxes?? I can't answer them. I have to copy their sentences, and then paste them in my answer box, then answer them. It is all horrifying. I will have to learn slowly. At least I have gotten this far so well.

Let Jesus Be Your Older Brother And Savior!!

Michael
Just quote the whole post with the "Quote" button and all you get is their words without any previous quotes in one ready formatted quote box.
If you want to respond to particular sections of their post it involves making sure there are start and end tags at the right places and deleting any of their words you don't want to use.
(Note that the first opening tag is already put in for you automatically btw, but also with a name and post reference)

Once you've ended the first selection with a [/QUOT*] tag then start typing your words after it, then you must put in a [QUOT*] tag after your piece to resume their post.

You can then either section some more off again as above or go to after the final [/QUOT*] of their post and type some more of your words there.
(*=E btw)
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear Alwight,

I think I've got it. We'll see what happens next time I need it. Instead of *, I type in an E , right?

Thanks very much Al,

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael
 

alwight

New member
Dear Alwight,

I think I've got it. We'll see what happens next time I need it. Instead of *, I type in an E , right?

Thanks very much Al,

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael
Yes that's it Michael.
It's quite hard to try to explain and use examples of quote tags without causing unwanted effects if you use the full tag, hence my "*" instead of "E".
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes that's it Michael.
It's quite hard to try to explain and use examples of quote tags without causing unwanted effects if you use the full tag, hence my "*" instead of "E".

I can see why you'd want to do that Alwight!! See, I did crack it. I even know how to do a box in a box. Cool eh. Just from your instruction and Hedshaker's help also. I pray for you both to let God be one of your friends. It can't hurt! Jesus has spoken to me, so I do know He exists. I was having a heart attack when I was 18. He said, "Calm yourself and think of those you love." Then He said "Call in your mother." Don't you trust me enough to know He's real?? You don't trust me? Plus I've been visited by a number of angels. Three angels in one month in March, ten days after the Lord visited me. One angel each week. It's been an awesome life and I'm am so blessed, but I have had to pay a lot too. So I would do it again, because my love for Him and God runs very deep. Why do you think I am so positive and sure in what words I say. I KNOW He exists, so I don't have to just believe.

In Christ's Love Always,

Your Friend and Buddy,

Michael

:singer:

:third:

:up:
 
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