Creation vs. Evolution

Status
Not open for further replies.

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The mistakes/corrections made in the attempt to prove the evolution of man from the fossil record.

1. Having to little information
--Nebraska man
--Ramapithecus
--Taung child

2. Deliberate misconstruction
--Piltdown man
--Neanderthal

3. Misdating
--Skull 1470

I'll keep adding to this as we go on.

--Dave
 

gcthomas

New member
The mistakes/corrections made in the attempt to prove the evolution of man from the fossil record.

1. Having to little information
--Nebraska man
--Ramapithecus
--Taung child

2. Deliberate misconstruction
--Piltdown man
--Neanderthal

3. Misdating
--Skull 1470

I'll keep adding to this as we go on.

--Dave

You'll need to add to it, since it is a terribly paltry list.

And I don't agree that evolution is a philosophy or that creationism is a science. Evolution is solely an evidence supported theory, while creationism is a bible inspired religion.
 

6days

New member
Jukia said:
Dave: You need to add yourself to #1(Too little info)
Jukia...You ( and others) have tried to dismiss Dave's argument by attempting to belittle him, rather than attacking his arguments. That is called ad hominem.


Urban dictionary; Ad hominem
"An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their arguement or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence."
 

6days

New member
You'll need to add to it, since it is a terribly paltry list.

And I don't agree that evolution is a philosophy or that creationism is a science. Evolution is solely an evidence supported theory, while creationism is a bible inspired religion.

GC...that is a red herring fallacy.
Dave asked if you conceded his list is factual...so far
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Oh goodness gracious, no. 6days has stated that Neanderthals were 100% human, I am just trying to fill in the blanks. We have a certain amount of Neanderthal fossils, are they pre flood or post flood.

Although as I think about it, those fossils must be all pre flood, since if Neanderthals are human kind they did not get on the Ark since only Noah's family was on the Ark---unless of course Noah was a Neanderthal. Ah but that strikes me as silly since there is nothing in the Bible that suggests that.

So all Neanderthal fossils are from the 2000+/- years between Creation Week and the end of the Flood, right?

What are you basing your knowledge on?

There were giants and six fingered men post and pre flood.

Like I said, just an attempt to mis direct the subject.
 

gcthomas

New member
GC...that is a red herring fallacy.
Dave asked if you conceded his list is factual...so far

I think you need to look up what a red herring is - it involves leading off down a distracting route, whereas I commented directly on what was presented.

And the list IS short. I can't comment much on what hasn't been presented by Dave, can I? The list is short and it doesn't undermine the modern synthesis of evolution, while Dave does not seem constitutionally capable of a sustained decent attack on evolution, since he has a very marginal understanding of how science works or what 'scientific' actually means (just like you. Yes, an ad hom, but you seem immune to actual arguments despite how silly it makes you).
 

noguru

Well-known member
Jukia...You ( and others) have tried to dismiss Dave's argument by attempting to belittle him, rather than attacking his arguments. That is called ad hominem.


Urban dictionary; Ad hominem
"An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their arguement or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence."

An argument cannot exceed the competency of the person giving it. This is the reality. Your attempts to obfuscate what can clearly be seen are duly noted.
 

alwight

New member
Not just me, but also modern science...Even many evolutionists now admit Neandertals are us.
I don't think you're right about that. What is being suggested is that Neanderthals have at some point interbreed with homo sapiens and that many of us do have some of their DNA. But to suggest that we are actually the same species rather than a close one is not what the fossil record seems to show, that there are just too many fundamental differences along with all the similarities.

However I realise that you are probably unwilling to agree that that is what the evidence shows but I'd suggest that that was only because of the rather difficult doctrinal problems you'd be left with were you to do so. Not that the differences don't exist, but mainly that you and YECdom probably don't want to even try to contemplate that there might have been more than one version of man, particularly to yourselves.

Comparable brain size? Evolutionists find it difficult to admit Neandertals had LARGER brains than us.
Some might have had bigger brains but "comparable" is as good a word as any imo.

Funny that evolutionists use SLIGHT difference in physical traits to justify their belief that Neandertals were a different species. We don't call dwarfs, pygmies, mongoloids etc a different species when they look slightly different. There are many people with genetic physical defornities and we don't call them a different species. So, there is no justification in calling Neandertals a different species.
I'd agree that the concept of what constitutes a species is not always exact, but science seems free to conclude from evidence that Neanderthals were heading down a different evolutionary path because science does not have to restrict itself to a literal interpretation of what was written in some ancient scripture.

Wow... So typical. Try to make chimps more human like and try make humans more ape like.
Evidentially we are nevertheless close cousins regardless of creationists not particularly liking the idea.

God's Word tells us that all humans are one blood. And science confirms it. There are no separate human species...no sub species of humans
Bald assertion, but if that's what you must believe then be my guest believe away. If you must adhere literally to an ancient scripture, then you can do nothing else apparently, because you won't allow it to ever be wrong or allegorical, whatever the evidence suggests.

Evolutionists at one time thought some people groups were more highly evolved than others. (EX. They thought Caucasian men were more highly evolved than dark skin people. Evolutionists thought men were more highly evolved and more intelligent than women)

Some modern evolutionists are similar to those older evolutionists. Modern evolutionists no longer believe men are more evolved than women... Yet some still believe there are different species and sub species of humans such as Neandertals.


Evolutionists... totally wrong about Neandertals

God's Word.....totally correct.
"Evolutionists" don't adhere to a literal Genesis of course, but unlike you they don't have to pre-conclude that anything other than what your ancient scripture says is automatically wrong whatever the evidence might show.
However I don't believe that there are any such thing as "evolutionists", beyond the creationists' mind-set anyway.
People who tend to believe that the ToE is virtually true fact are not proposing it as an alternative to Biblical creation, it's just something that makes rational sense of the natural evidence more generally, while nothing has come along, least of all creationist assertions, to falsify it or that there is a better natural explanation of the evidence.
 

Jukia

New member
Jukia...You ( and others) have tried to dismiss Dave's argument by attempting to belittle him, rather than attacking his arguments. That is called ad hominem.


Urban dictionary; Ad hominem
"An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their arguement or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence."

Golly, thanks. On the other hand if Dave has all this information which will turn current scientific thought on human evolution on its head there is a simple way to do that----publish in the scientific literature.

Man up, fight it out with the big boys. Unless of course he is afraid of the grand scientific god-hating conspiracy. Get Kenny Ham to support Dave's research. C'mon, show us non-believers.
 

Jukia

New member
What are you basing your knowledge on?

There were giants and six fingered men post and pre flood.

Like I said, just an attempt to mis direct the subject.

Knowledge of what? Per earlier posts, Neanderthals were 100% Homo sapiens. My question is whether Neanderthal fossils are found in pre Flood deposits only, in post Flood deposits only, or in both.

Do specific questions cause you distress?
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Knowledge of what? Per earlier posts, Neanderthals were 100% Homo sapiens. My question is whether Neanderthal fossils are found in pre Flood deposits only, in post Flood deposits only, or in both.

I have been told that you are the scientist here, so spit it out.

Do specific questions cause you distress?

No, children are a source of amusement.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
I don't think you're right about that. What is being suggested is that Neanderthals have at some point interbreed with homo sapiens and that many of us do have some of their DNA. But to suggest that we are actually the same species rather than a close one is not what the fossil record seems to show, that there are just too many fundamental differences along with all the similarities.

However I realise that you are probably unwilling to agree that that is what the evidence shows but I'd suggest that that was only because of the rather difficult doctrinal problems you'd be left with were you to do so. Not that the differences don't exist, but mainly that you and YECdom probably don't want to even try to contemplate that there might have been more than one version of man, particularly to yourselves.

Some might have had bigger brains but "comparable" is as good a word as any imo.

I'd agree that the concept of what constitutes a species is not always exact, but science seems free to conclude from evidence that Neanderthals were heading down a different evolutionary path because science does not have to restrict itself to a literal interpretation of what was written in some ancient scripture.

Evidentially we are nevertheless close cousins regardless of creationists not particularly liking the idea.


Bald assertion, but if that's what you must believe then be my guest believe away. If you must adhere literally to an ancient scripture, then you can do nothing else apparently, because you won't allow it to ever be wrong or allegorical, whatever the evidence suggests.

"Evolutionists" don't adhere to a literal Genesis of course, but unlike you they don't have to pre-conclude that anything other than what your ancient scripture says is automatically wrong whatever the evidence might show.
However I don't believe that there are any such thing as "evolutionists", beyond the creationists' mind-set anyway.
People who tend to believe that the ToE is virtually true fact are not proposing it as an alternative to Biblical creation, it's just something that makes rational sense of the natural evidence more generally, while nothing has come along, least of all creationist assertions, to falsify it or that there is a better natural explanation of the evidence.

Bottom line is, the life is in the blood.
 

Jukia

New member
Jukia...You ( and others) have tried to dismiss Dave's argument by attempting to belittle him, rather than attacking his arguments. That is called ad hominem.


Urban dictionary; Ad hominem
"An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their arguement or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence."

To the extent I used an ad hom, well I learned from Stripe and Lighthouse. go suggest that they change their ways.
 

6days

New member
gcthomas said:
6days said:
gcthomas said:
DFT_Dave said:
The mistakes/corrections made in the attempt to prove the evolution of man from the fossil record.

1. Having to little information
--Nebraska man
--Ramapithecus
--Taung child

2. Deliberate misconstruction
--Piltdown man
--Neanderthal

3. Misdating
--Skull 1470

I'll keep adding to this as we go on.

--Dave
You'll need to add to it, since it is a terribly paltry list.

And I don't agree that evolution is a philosophy or that creationism is a science. Evolution is solely an evidence supported theory, while creationism is a bible inspired religion.


GC...that is a red herring fallacy.
Dave asked if you conceded his list is factual...so far
I think you need to look up what a red herring is - it involves leading off down a distracting route, whereas I commented directly on what was presented.
No, you tried to create a distraction wanting instead to argue if evolutionism and creationism are religion.

gcthomas said:
And the list IS short. I can't comment much on what hasn't been presented by Dave, can I?
The question is very simple...He asked if you concede the facts he presented so far are correct?

gcthomas said:
The list is short and it doesn't undermine the modern synthesis of evolution
Dave didn't claim it undermines " the modern synthesis of evolution". Perhaps that is your fear and reason for not answering the question?
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Are you suggesting that none of the creationists here can tell us if Neanderthals were pre, post or both with respect to Noah's Flood. Hunh, maybe Ken Ham would know.

No.

It does not matter either way.

If for some reason it does to you, please spit it out. :readthis:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top