ECT Clearing up the confusion of Creation!

[God's Truth]

You really need to read more carefully! Neither of us said all the dinosaurs died in the flood. I said almost all of the dino fossils were from dinos killed in the flood. It's a pretty big difference.

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Hahahahahahalololol

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes... we do not know what the pre-flood world looked like, it was destroyed. "So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth".

The mountains we see today are a result of post-flood activity. (Stripe or others can do a better job of explaining tectonics, subduction etc. But, the mountains are great evidence for the flood and rapid formation. We see fossil marine organisms on every mountain range in the world. We see large sedimentary layers that formed when soft and pliable and now hardened into rock (folded / bent layers).*


Is there enough water to cover the whole earth...Definetly!. If the earth was flat the entire earth would be under 1.5 miles of water.*

You should check out kgov.com/flood.

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[Derf]

Hahahahahahalololol

I probably deserve that after my other post, but if you leave misunderstanding what I wrote, you leave without a full understanding.

Here's what I meant:
If the flood is a unique event in history (and the bible makes it clear that it is), and one of the unique features is that it caused fossils to form when they usually wouldn't (which it is apparent that it did), then the fossils that we find of dinosaurs are most likely all of animals that were alive at the time of the flood. That doesn't mean that all dinosaurs died in the flood, nor that none survived the flood, but only that the fossils of dinosaurs are most likely from the flood or its aftermath, and therefore most dinosaur fossils are of animals that were alive at the same time.

Thus, counting the fossils may give us an approximation of the number of dinosaurs that were alive on the earth at one particular time in history, IF (very big "if") we can accurately estimate the ratios of fossils found so far to the real number of fossils (found and not found) and the real number of fossils to dinosaurs living at the time of the flood. It's a gross speculation, but not an unreasonable one to attempt.

 

[God's Truth]

I probably deserve that after my other post, but if you leave misunderstanding what I wrote, you leave without a full understanding.

Here's what I meant:
If the flood is a unique event in history (and the bible makes it clear that it is), and one of the unique features is that it caused fossils to form when they usually wouldn't (which it is apparent that it did), then the fossils that we find of dinosaurs are most likely all of animals that were alive at the time of the flood. That doesn't mean that all dinosaurs died in the flood, nor that none survived the flood, but only that the fossils of dinosaurs are most likely from the flood or its aftermath, and therefore most dinosaur fossils are of animals that were alive at the same time.

Thus, counting the fossils may give us an approximation of the number of dinosaurs that were alive on the earth at one particular time in history, IF (very big "if") we can accurately estimate the ratios of fossils found so far to the real number of fossils (found and not found) and the real number of fossils to dinosaurs living at the time of the flood. It's a gross speculation, but not an unreasonable one to attempt.

For one thing, the so called dinosaur fossils are said to be millions upon millions of years old---the flood was not that long ago, so you cannot say the dinosaurs died in the flood and at that time fossilization began.

For another thing, if there were dinosaurs during Noah's life on earth, then the only way a dinosaur could live after Noah's time...let's say during Job's time---then the only way that could have happened is if Noah brought two dinosaurs with him on the ark, a male and a female.

 

[JudgeRightly]

For one thing, the so called dinosaur fossils are said to be millions upon millions of years old---the flood was not that long ago, so you cannot say the dinosaurs died in the flood and at that time fossilization began.

The people who say that the fossils are that old are advocates of evolution, and cannot be trusted when making claims of age. The fossils themselves suggest that they are young. See kgov.com/soft.

For another thing, if there were dinosaurs during Noah's life on earth, then the only way a dinosaur could live after Noah's time...let's say during Job's time---then the only way that could have happened is if Noah brought two dinosaurs with him on the ark, a male and a female.

Again, no one said that he didn't bring two of each kind of dinosaur on the ark with him.

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[6days]

For one thing, the so called dinosaur fossils ...

So called?*

...are said to be millions upon millions of years old---the flood was not that long ago, so you cannot say the dinosaurs died in the flood and at that time fossilization began.

It pretty much depends on if you believe God's Word or not. (And if you choose to believe opinions from evolutionist scientists or Biblical creationist scientists)

For another thing, if there were dinosaurs during Noah's life on earth, then the only way a dinosaur could live after Noah's time...let's say during Job's time---then the only way that could have happened is if Noah brought two dinosaurs with him on the ark, a male and a female

True. That is a problem?

 

[God's Truth]

The people who say that the fossils are that old are advocates of evolution, and cannot be trusted when making claims of age. The fossils themselves suggest that they are young. See kgov.com/soft.



Again, no one said that he didn't bring two of each kind of dinosaur on the ark with him.

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LOL
Young fossils mean even older. lol

 

[God's Truth]

So called?*

It pretty much depends on if you believe God's Word or not. (And if you choose to believe opinions from evolutionist scientists or Biblical creationist scientists)

True. That is a problem?

You are confused. Read again what I said and then respond.

 

[God's Truth]

The people who say that the fossils are that old are advocates of evolution, and cannot be trusted when making claims of age. The fossils themselves suggest that they are young. See kgov.com/soft.



Again, no one said that he didn't bring two of each kind of dinosaur on the ark with him.

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You are trying to back peddle and change what you said.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You are trying to back peddle and change what you said.

I think you need to reread everything that's been said so far. No one has contradicted themselves. Or backpedaled.

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[JudgeRightly]

LOL
Young fossils mean even older. lol

So something that's only a few thousand years old means that everything is older? Wat.

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[Derf]

For one thing, the so called dinosaur fossils are said to be millions upon millions of years old---the flood was not that long ago, so you cannot say the dinosaurs died in the flood and at that time fossilization began.

For another thing, if there were dinosaurs during Noah's life on earth, then the only way a dinosaur could live after Noah's time...let's say during Job's time---then the only way that could have happened is if Noah brought two dinosaurs with him on the ark, a male and a female.

For someone who says they love God's Word, you sure don't seem to take it very seriously when it tells you the age of the earth. And for someone who seems to believe what the scientists say, your comment about "so called" fossils tells me that you don't believe them, either.

So why would you use scientists, whom you don't believe, to argue against the Word of God, which you say you love?

You are a study in contradiction, and I must say that it makes me wonder if it's worth the conversation. I know that offends you, but I feel like I wasted my time on these posts.

 

[jsanford108]

Hello all. There is a little bit of discrepancy here. Allow me to clear the air with the views of one who works in the biological field.

The OP mentioned that the first seven days mentioned in Genesis may have been greater than 24 hours. I believe this is perfectly reasonable. Note that the verse says "the morning and evening were the first day." Imagine you are being granted this vision or story from God. Would you not apply your own viewpoint to your transcriptions? The idea of the sun rising and setting is naturally a "day" in our view. However, our views are limited to our own opinions and experience. So the first "day" (being sun rise to sun down) could have been a thousand years. The first objection any scientist would make is that such a timeline would destroy fauna, various life forms, etc. Yet, keep in mind that death has not entered into existence, for all is still perfect in creation.

If one allows for the possibility that each "day" of creation was more than a mere 24-30 hours, then fossil records, carbon dating, etc fall into place perfectly.

Now to address the disbelief of science. Science is a study of the natural. Science cannot measure anything that it cannot collect or reproduce in a lab. Science can make educated guesses, which become theories. However, theories are not laws. Theories are just that: theories. So let us examine carbon dating closer. I use it as evidence all the time. However, as a true scientist and realist, I know that carbon dating is not perfect. For example, any sample that predates my carbon isotopes distorts an accurate reading. Carbon dating is the most accurate test we have, but even it allows for moderate error in results.

In my opinion, these items that I have listed for consideration are a component of critical thinking. One which many theists, anti-theists, Christians, scientists, pretty much any labeled group, forgoes for the sake of making their opinions and ideologies cohesive with evidence at their disposal.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Hello all. There is a little bit of discrepancy here. Allow me to clear the air with the views of one who works in the biological field.

The OP mentioned that the first seven days mentioned in Genesis may have been greater than 24 hours. I believe this is perfectly reasonable. Note that the verse says "the morning and evening were the first day." Imagine you are being granted this vision or story from God. Would you not apply your own viewpoint to your transcriptions? The idea of the sun rising and setting is naturally a "day" in our view. However, our views are limited to our own opinions and experience. So the first "day" (being sun rise to sun down) could have been a thousand years. The first objection any scientist would make is that such a timeline would destroy fauna, various life forms, etc. Yet, keep in mind that death has not entered into existence, for all is still perfect in creation.

If one allows for the possibility that each "day" of creation was more than a mere 24-30 hours, then fossil records, carbon dating, etc fall into place perfectly.

Now to address the disbelief of science. Science is a study of the natural. Science cannot measure anything that it cannot collect or reproduce in a lab. Science can make educated guesses, which become theories. However, theories are not laws. Theories are just that: theories. So let us examine carbon dating closer. I use it as evidence all the time. However, as a true scientist and realist, I know that carbon dating is not perfect. For example, any sample that predates my carbon isotopes distorts an accurate reading. Carbon dating is the most accurate test we have, but even it allows for moderate error in results.

In my opinion, these items that I have listed for consideration are a component of critical thinking. One which many theists, anti-theists, Christians, scientists, pretty much any labeled group, forgoes for the sake of making their opinions and ideologies cohesive with evidence at their disposal.

Exodus 20:11 "For in six days God created..."

If it was longer than a day, then why would this verse say "days"?

Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning God made them male and female."

If God took thousands (let alone millions) of years to create our universe, then this verse would be false. You can't create man at the beginning if thousands (forget millions) of years have already passed. That's not at the beginning. Now, the sixth day, however, that's practically at the beginning, if the universe is only 6-8 thousand years old.

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[6days]

The OP mentioned that the first seven days mentioned in Genesis may have been greater than 24 hours. I believe this is perfectly reasonable. Note that the verse says "the morning and evening were the first day." Imagine you are being granted this vision or story from God. Would you not apply your own viewpoint to your transcriptions? The idea of the sun rising and setting is naturally a "day" in our view. However, our views are limited to our own opinions and experience. So the first "day" (being sun rise to sun down) could have been a thousand years.

That is only an objection if you deny what scripture clearly says...and if you want to add billions of years into God's Word. *God defines the Genesis days in verse 5 of the creation account.

Also....if you are interested, I can show from *context in scripture, and from context in Hebrew that the creation days in Genesis can NOT be anything other than what we know as a 24 hour period.

If one allows for the possibility that each "day" of creation was more than a mere 24-30 hours, then fossil records, carbon dating, etc fall into place perfectly.*

Fossils, carbon dating actually fit perfectly with the Biblical creation and flood account. Secular explanations for the fossil record is not near as compelling as God's Word.

*So let us examine carbon dating closer. I use it as evidence all the time. .... Carbon dating is the most accurate test we have, but even it allows for moderate error in results.

Great... so lets consider C14 dating through the lens of God's Word. Why would soft dinosaur tissue date in the 30,000 year range? It fits perfectly with God's Word*and the young earth when we realize how the global flood totally wiped out all plant and animal life on earth. it would have drastically changed the ratios. And.... the initial ratio before the flood is an unknown. We don't know what the pre-flood c14/c12 ratio was.*

 

[God's Truth]

So something that's only a few thousand years old means that everything is older? Wat.

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Show me your scientific evidence that dinosaurs have been discovered to be living as late as 4,000 years B.C.

 

[God's Truth]

For someone who says they love God's Word, you sure don't seem to take it very seriously when it tells you the age of the earth. And for someone who seems to believe what the scientists say, your comment about "so called" fossils tells me that you don't believe them, either.

So why would you use scientists, whom you don't believe, to argue against the Word of God, which you say you love?

You are a study in contradiction, and I must say that it makes me wonder if it's worth the conversation. I know that offends you, but I feel like I wasted my time on these posts.

Try to sound confusing to seem smart and insult your opponent...that is what you are trying to do.

YOU are the one who says there were dinosaurs and that it is scientifically proven.

You are the one who gave scientific reasoning on how a fossil is made.

You are the one who goes against God's word who says Noah brought all animals with him.

So tell me how the dinosaurs lived in the time of Job, JudgeRightly.

Tell me how the dinosaurs disappeared if they survived the flood.

Tell me how the proof from scientists are about dinosaurs being millions of years old existed only thousands of years ago.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That is only an objection if you deny what scripture clearly says...and if you want to add billions of years into God's Word. *God defines the Genesis days in verse 5 of the creation account..."God calledN)" style="font-size: 0.625em; vertical-align: top; font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-indent: -35.2px;">*the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.”O)" style="font-size: 0.625em; vertical-align: top; font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-indent: -35.2px;">*And there was evening, and there was morningP)" style="font-size: 0.625em; vertical-align: top; font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-indent: -35.2px;">—the first day."

You need to work on formatting, my friend.

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[Derf]

Try to sound confusing to seem smart and insult your opponent...that is what you are trying to do.

YOU are the one who says there were dinosaurs and that it is scientifically proven.

You are the one who gave scientific reasoning on how a fossil is made.

You are the one who goes against God's word who says Noah brought all animals with him.

So tell me how the dinosaurs lived in the time of Job, JudgeRightly.

Tell me how the dinosaurs disappeared if they survived the flood.

Tell me how the proof from scientists are about dinosaurs being millions of years old existed only thousands of years ago.

What??? You seem to be getting frustrated and not making any sense. Take a little time, go back through some of the posts and read them without anger and vitriol, and then come back and try again. I can wait.

 

[6days]

You are the one who goes against God's word who says Noah brought all animals with him.

What animals didn't get on the ark? fish?

So tell me how the dinosaurs lived in the time of Job.

Tell me how sabre tooth tigers, and dodo birds lived in the time of Jesus.

Tell me how the dinosaurs disappeared if they survived the flood.

Tell me how 500 species went extinct last year.*

Tell me how the proof from scientists are about dinosaurs being millions of years old ....

You mean opinions from evolutionist scientists, as opposed to Biblical creationist scientists?