Christianity vs karma

way 2 go

Well-known member
Let's follow again,....since you reap what you've sown (any acts committed in the past)...some of your 'harvest' may not be collected until an opportune time in the future,...so it quite logical that something you're experiencing now could be the result of some past action, unless your suffering or good fortune is wholly 'accidental' or 'random', but some would question this or allow such to happen very rarely. In any case 'Reincarnation' (rebirth) and karma go hand in hand from an eastern-religious perspective, and satisfies a rational philosophical approach to the issues of justice and personal responsibility. Any life experience you or I go thru, such can be a product of many different factors serving as 'causes' which condition our current life-experience....and we do acts in the present which further affects our future. Our conditions and destiny are in our own hands.
like I said
it is like a math formula where there is no certain values to the equation and you have not shown otherwise.

karma
kill a person -1 could be -10 , -113 who knows or
a + again who knows its made up

it is about sin and just one sin separates you from God

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.



Oh, you can throw in a personal 'God' here if you like,....you're still responsible for your own choices and their consequences. Follow?

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.




The fact remains, whatever kind of seeds you plant, you will reap a harvest of like kind or nature. Whatever you are sowing, you will reap accordingly. Actions have consequences,....causal actions have their 'effects'. You can deny 'karma' til the cows come home, but the law remains.


13:37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
Mat 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
Mat 13:39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels.
Mat 13:40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
Mat 13:42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


I've spent a good deal of writing against the heinous concept of ECT here :) - I don't fear it, because I don't believe in a 'god' who would enforce or allow such an abject condition for any sentient being. - its insane.

karma is insane

Beyond you providing proof for such, I explore the concept 'philosophically'....so 'rebirth'(reincarnation) is similar to 'resurrection',...note the spirit-soul comes back in a new body in both cases,...there is 're-embodiment'. I'm not dogmatic about 'rebirth', I explore and consider it philosophically,...I'm open to it, but have not come to a final conclusion on the matter...but see how it ties in with karma in certain schools of thought.
not you die once then the judgement.
Heb_9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,


Not really, for we are still to serve and assist all souls wherever we find them suffering. Love will act and serve wherever one has need. Love does as love wills.The law of karma is much more merciful than ECT, since the former is JUST in that a sinner only suffers for his own sins, to whatever degree or duration is appropriate, (suffering endures only as long as one is transgressing the law, and only lasts until such sinning stops and is atoned for) ...one is not sentenced or condemned to suffer eternally forever and ever....TO NO END. This is not only unjust, but insane. Its tyranny and cruelty beyond measure. This is what eternal tormentists enivision God as, which is pretty scary.

karma is undefined
kill a person -1 could be -10 , -113 who knows or
a + again who knows its made up

but sin that separates you from God , your separated from God right now
Eph_2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
I don't really see this as metaphor. I think this is really how it is. Sort of like when warm humid air encounters a cold air mass in the atmosphere, and the humidity condenses to become individual droplets of water, and then they freeze to become individual 'flakes' of snow.

As the 'spirit' manifests in the physical realm, it becomes disseminated into many individual forms, each uniquely individualized by it's own physical circumstance. Yet each remains a direct expression of the spirit whole from which it is manifesting … and to which it will return. Carrying with it the changes that have occurred via this individualization, and adding those to the collective/univrsal nature of the whole.

:thumb:

I was just meaning that we are describing the relationship of the part to the whole in some metaphorical language or illustrations, such as the water droplets that make up the whole ocean,...or the waves of that same ocean being individual expressions or movements of 'universal water', taking on different forms/shapes, but remaining essentially 'water' in nature. In this way, as far as karmic relationships go, its all inter-dependent and associated as far as cause/effects go, since there is a continual unfolding of determining actions which produces corresponding ones,...like the 'ripple effect' thru-out the whole.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
karma says you get more lives to pile up sin :nono: to get it right :nono:
to get to neutral karma :devil:

Christianity says sin is death ...
Jas_1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
and the only solution is Jesus Chtrist
Joh_8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
facts of life......

facts of life......

karma says you get more lives to pile up sin :nono: to get it right :nono:
to get to neutral karma :devil:

karma means 'action' or 'doing', and includes all the interactions that occur with the sequence of actions and the consequences or results of such actions. It still holds that what you sow is what you reap,....as long as your thoughts, words and deeds have any conditional effect whatsoever. I'd do more research on universal laws.

Christianity says sin is death ...
Jas_1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
and the only solution is Jesus Chtrist
Joh_8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."

We do note that some passages say 'the wages of sin is death', and such is logical since any transgression of natural or divine law has a penalty or consequence,....just as obedience or living in harmony with such laws have their results. Paul recognized this universal principle and expounded on it in his discourses as he understood it. "God (the originator of law or law itself) is not mocked,...whatever a man sows, that also shall he reap. - he goes on about sowing to the flesh or the spirit, but note, ...its the same law...just applied in his own terms, as per his own experience of the flesh and the spirit.

As long as there is action and their consequences, the interaction of cause & effect.....there is 'karma', for that is what karma is. Every soul during any time of reckoning or accounting is judged how? - according to their works (karma). As long as there is 'doing' of any kind, any kind of 'acitivity',...there is karma. Fact of life.
 
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PureX

Well-known member
I don't really see karma as relating to Christian ideology, specifically, except perhaps as love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity being it's own kind of reward. I think karma is fundamentally an issue of 'balance', which is not a significant ideal in the Christian worldview.

In eastern thought, there is the 'yin' and the 'yang', and they are perceived as opposing forces that remain in perpetual balance with each other. And it's through this perpetual balance of opposition that existence happens. In western thought (particularly religious Christian thought) there is good and evil, and they are viewed as opposing forces, but there is little or no concern for a 'balance' between them. Only the will of each to annihilate the other.

Karma is the perceived phenomena of existence reestablishing it's itself, through this balance, I think. Not of the ultimate triumph of good over evil, or of evil over good, as is the main concern of Christian ideology.

There are, however, a few places in the NT where I see the concept of karma being addressed a bit more directly, and that's in the various passages about divine 'turn-about': like, "Many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first". And, "Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven.". I think these quotes do imply some sort of karmic balance even if it's not being directly addressed or defined.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
I am Christian so I don't believe in karma. I believe we get what we deserve based on Gods judgments.

I think our other posts here have already addressed this. You don't have to believe that actions have effects and consequences,...but that's life. It doesn't matter what 'label' or 'brand' of religion you choose to affiliate with.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
karma means 'action' or 'doing', and includes all the interactions that occur with the sequence of actions and the consequences or results of such actions. It still holds that what you sow is what you reap,....as long as your thoughts, words and deeds have any conditional effect whatsoever. I'd do more research on the universal laws.
you're a weed

13:37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
Mat 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,



We do note that some passages say 'the wages of sin is death', and such is logical since any transgression of natural or divine law has a penalty or consequence,....

Jas_1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

death not another life

just as obedience or living in harmony with such laws have their results.
karma laws are arbitrary and will lead to death

Pro_14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

Paul recognized this universal principle and expounded on it in his discourses as he understood it. "God (the originator of law or law itself) is not mocked,...
Paul taught Christians are not under law

Rom 7:3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another,

whatever a man sows, that also shall he reap. - he goes on about sowing to the flesh or the spirit, but note, ...its the same law...just applied in his own terms, as per his own experience of the flesh and the spirit.



1Ti_5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment. And some they also follow after.


As long as there is action and their consequences, the interaction of cause & effect.....there is 'karma', for that is what karma is. Every soul during any time of reckoning or accounting is judged how? - according to their works (karma). As long as there is 'doing' of any kind, any kind of 'acitivity',...there is karma. Fact of life.

it is about sin and just one sin separates you from God

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Actions count and have results........

Actions count and have results........

The Bible knows nothing about karma.

This is an ignorant statement. Of course the Sanskrit word 'karm' (karma) is not in the Bible, for it comes from Hindu tradition and their sacred literature, but the principle of 'sowing & reaping', cause & effect, 'action & consequence' is found in the Bible and further confirmed by human experience. Actions have consequences. Why would anyone deny that?

I'd start with my earlier post here, and follow along, first understanding what 'karma' is (its simply 'action' and its various 're-actions' as all activities are 'inter-active' and produce various effects. That's what 'karma' refers to, fundamentally. Now there are various kinds of karma, and how 'intention' and circumstantial issues factor into producing results, but it still holds that "whatever a man sows, that also shall he reap". One's actions have consequences, they have their effect (these effects may be experienced sooner or later in time in one form or another). One doesn't need a 'Bible' or some other holy book to recognize such a law of nature, although some holy books speak about the principle. Therefore 'action' (one's deeds) are very vital in determining one's experience of life or death, blessing or cursing, joy or suffering.....since one is always experiencing in some form or fasion, the measure of his own doings, they are measured back to him. Such also corresponds to the concept of 'seedtime and harvest'. Whatever kind of seeds you are sowing, you can expect (as a veritable law of nature) the kind of harvest that those seeds(kind) determine. I don't think this is too difficult a concept to grasp.

While the eastern concept of 'karma' within its own various philosophical schools is different from a western traditional-orthodox Christian theological context, as far as how 'actions' affect ones condition of life, and ultimate destiny (salvation, enlightenment, etc.)...it still holds that actions have corresponding results and are ever 'inter-acting' with many other factors, to produce effects, but all these actions are inter-relating, inter-dependent, co-operating.

If you sin and you suffer the consequences karma has nothing to do with it.

If you commit an unlawful/harmful action (sin) you certainly suffer the consequence of that 'act', and this is what karma is, a perfect example. Remember, 'karma' simply means 'action' or 'doing'...and includes the creative power and result of the action itself,.....act and consequence,.....cause/effect. One can learn from his actions (karma) and no longer do the acts that cause suffering, pain, death, etc.....and do good actions to reap the rewards of right doing. There is also doing good karma for its own sake, in a self-less way, not for the rewards, but for the sake of goodness, compassion, kindness itself which transcends desire for reward or self-recognition.

We have to understand that 'karma' refers to the entire universe of activity,....all existence/creation is an interacting cosmos of karmic interaction. Science proves this in its own realm of experimentation, as it follows and documents the patterns of action/reaction, cause/effect and discovers certain laws of nature, how atoms, forces, elements, chemicals, substances interact with each other to produce certain effects. We can correlate the law with almost every activity in human experience and the cosmos.

'Karma' has everything to do with 'sin' and suffering its consequences. You may not like the word 'karma' due to negative or mistaken connotations given it, but its a principle worth researching as understood in both eastern and western schools of thought, since they each have different perspectives and insights into its workings.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Your 'karma' may soon run over your 'dogma'......

Your 'karma' may soon run over your 'dogma'......

you're a weed

13:37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
Mat 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,

:angel:

Jas_1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

An example of karma.

death not another life

I never implied that the above verse means 'another life' :idunno: - you're presupposing the concept of 'reincarnation' here. I've had my own 'Reincarnation' thread and coordinated another,...but I've not expressly brought 'rebirth' up here, except maybe a few references. We're talking mainly 'karma' (action) here :) - its already a given that 'sin' (transgressing natural or divine law) has consequences. Back to square 1 ;) - do please note as well,.....in this life or any life (thru-out the continuity of multiple life experiences),....actions and their determining effects continue, and will be harvested at some point in time as long as their is a conscious entity to experience the effects. - as a mystic he intuited these laws, using his own terms to describe such.


karma laws are arbitrary and will lead to death

Pro_14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

:noid:


Paul taught Christians are not under law

Rom 7:3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another,

Not sure where this applies. Remember as noted earlier,...Paul recognized the law of karma (sowing/reaping) and natural and spiritual laws of existence. (law of sin and death; law of the Spirit of life, etc.)



it is about sin and just one sin separates you from God

Yes,...its all about 'karma'. Remember....'karma' includes all actions, including 'sin'. All are judged by their 'karma' (works). What you think, say and DO....has consequences. The effect is in the cause, so that this law is inherent within actions themselves, as a seed that has within it the fruit that corresponds to its nature,...according to the kind of seed you sow, that same kind in one form or another shall be reaped.
 
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way 2 go

Well-known member
Jas_1:15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
An example of karma.
:nono:
end result eternity in heaven or hell
you cant earn your way out of going to hell

I never implied that the above verse means 'another life' :idunno: - you're presupposing the concept of 'reincarnation' here. I've had my own 'Reincarnation' thread and coordinated another,...but I've not expressly brought 'rebirth' up here, except maybe a few references. We're talking mainly 'karma' (action) here :) - its already a given that 'sin' (transgressing natural or divine law) has consequences. Back to square 1 ;)
you can't make yourself alive to Christ after you have died spiritually

Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.



- do please note as well,.....in this life or any life (thru-out the continuity of multiple life experiences),....actions and their determining effects continue, and will be harvested at some point in time as long as their is a conscious entity to experience the effects. - as a mystic he intuited these laws, using his own terms to describe such.
:nono:

karma is not a law it is a lie made up to make you fell better
about being a "good person" being enough.

Luk 23:42 And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
Luk 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."


Not sure where this applies. Remember as noted earlier,...Paul recognized the law of karma (sowing/reaping) and natural and spiritual laws of existence. (law of sin and death; law of the Spirit of life, etc.)

not karma
Saul became Paul on his way to Damascus faith saved Paul

Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.


Yes,...its all about 'karma'. Remember....'karma' includes all actions, including 'sin'. All are judged by their 'karma' (works). What you think, say and DO....has consequences. The effect is in the cause, so that this law is inherent within actions themselves, as a seed that has within it the fruit that corresponds to its nature,...according to the kind of seed you sow, that same kind in one form or another shall be reaped.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
:nono:
end result eternity in heaven or hell
you cant earn your way out of going to hell

Lets remember that you are reaping whatever you sow, getting back what you give out, experiencing the effect of what your actions cause, in this life and all lives thru-out space and time....as long as your actions are conditional. This is the case whether you believe in a 'heaven' or 'hell' somewhere else out in space or not. The truth is you have the seed-potentials of heaven and hell in your soul at every moment, and are creating your own conditions by your choices and actions in every moment, however these effects play themselves out. Actions and their results is what karma is.

You are earning heaven or hell....from moment to moment by your own attitude and actions.

karma is not a law it is a lie made up to make you fell better
about being a "good person" being enough.

Cause & effect is a natural and scientific law. You will suffer for your own wrongdoing, and be rewarded for right-doing.

I highly recommend Manly P. Hall's lecture below as a primer on the subject -

[video]https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=ajAtIQOw3rg[/video]
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
The sound from the clapping hand never fades away. The sound travels through space non stop long after you're dead. That is the effect low level Christians would like to deny.
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
Sound does fade and vanish, it does not continue forever, that's childish
Like light waves, it continues. Blast a sound in the ocean and the ocean waves cause new waves and it multiplies and causes the weather change. Soon your home gets blown away due to your karma insulting people 24/7. Better go dig yourself a hole and stay in it.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Like light waves, it continues. Blast a sound in the ocean and the ocean waves cause new waves and it multiplies and causes the weather change. Soon your home gets blown away due to your karma insulting people 24/7. Better go dig yourself a hole and stay in it.
Wrong. God is in control, karma is for heretics like you. Your possessions will vanish
 
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