Because the "sin nature", as shown in the Bible, is inherited from the father.
Jesus did not have an earthly father, therefore He did not inherit the sin nature.
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Because the "sin nature", as shown in the Bible, is inherited from the father.
Jesus did not have an earthly father, therefore He did not inherit the sin nature.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Where do you see the "sin nature" is inherited from the father?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Actually, that verse does say it was by practice....walking according to the course of this world (not according to a sinful nature). The word "disobedience" also speaks of practice rather than nature. "Fulfilling the lusts and desires..." speaks of practice.
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
We also see certain Gentiles, who do by nature, the things contained in the law.
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
jaybird
New member
doesnt EZ 18 teach against this? we are held accountable for our own sins and not the sins of others. the entire passage is devoted to that very point.
Think about it for a moment. Was humanity condemned through Eve? or through Adam? Eve sinned first, but it was because of Adam's sin that man fell.
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— . . . Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. - Romans 5:12,18-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:12,18-19&version=NKJV
For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. - 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians15:21-22&version=NKJV
I completely agree. Everyone is accountable for their own sin. I'm not saying that everyone is accountable for the sins of their father, I'm only saying that the "desire" or "willingness" to sin comes from their father, and not the mother.
jaybird
New member
IMO that would be the same thing. the desire does not come from us, we get it from our father, then we are held accountable for this desire that came from our father and not us.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Think about this for a moment. Adam and Eve were both called man. Their name was called Adam.
Genesis 5:1-2
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Adam was formed first, but Eve was in the transgression. They must both be included in the verses you site from Romans 5.
1 Timothy 2:13-14
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
glorydaz
Well-known member
nikolai_42
Well-known member
No argument that action is a big part of it - but one comes first. It's either sin making them sinners (action creating nature) or them being sinners making them sin (nature dictating action). The symptoms are pointed to in the same way that the Law is used to identify sin as an underlying problem - not make someone better.
I read that as saying that the Gentiles (who were not given the Law in the first place) naturally recognize certain things as good and certain things as not good. Their civil laws or possibly social habits (speaking historically as referring to Gentiles 2000 years ago and more) reflect a conscience that the Law is good without even having been given it (outwardly). That it reflects what is right and true and noble. That doesn't mean that they are justified by it or even live up to it. Paul is saying that when they do what the Law explicitly says, they show the goodness of the Law. Not the goodness of the Gentiles. They are still bound over to futility. Remember, these same Gentiles walk in the vanity of their own minds :
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Ephesians 4:17-19
Is this the heart one wants to trust? Again, I see it as emphasizing the fact that the light of God is reflected in the conscience - even of those who never heard the Law from Sinai. That doesn't mean they obey it - just that their recognition of the universal "moral Law" (so to speak) highlights the fact that the Law is good.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Either way...it's human nature. We live in a body of flesh, and are susceptible to the lusts of the flesh and eye just as Adam was. My point being, neither Adam nor we are created with a "sin nature".
True of all since, and including, Adam.
Yes, man was created "good" in his very nature. The law was given to show men their sin and need to walk by faith in God. My argument is that man was not created with a "sin nature", and we didn't inherit a "sin nature" from Adam, evidenced by the fact that Adam sinned exactly like we all do.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
If, then, we are not sinners by nature, why do we sin? Why have ALL sinned if that is not natural? Why is it not our nature if we are - by nature - children of wrath? If I can add a point that I think helps to underscore that action is a symptom of the nature, remember what God judged mankind for with the flood :
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Genesis 6:5
It doesn't deny the importance of action, but basically emphasizes what God is judging - the heart. And Jeremiah 17:9 (which I have quoted ad nauseam, I think) tells us what the heart really is. Deceitful and desperately wicked. And there again, God goes on to say that He tries the "reins and the heart" to give according to every man the fruit of his doings. The heart is what is determining the action otherwise God would be judging the action. He judges the heart to give according to what it produces. Thus, Jesus says this:
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:17-18
Thus, the verse immediately following:
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matthew 7:19
He says it a little differently here :
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Matthew 12:33-34
A tree is known by its fruit. The nature of a man is made evident by his deeds. Thus, the vipers Jesus was speaking to were, by nature, evil. That's what came out of their mouths because that is what was in their hearts. James confirms this by saying no man can tame the tongue. The nature of the heart determines the words (and actions) that proceed forth from it.
So I don't see how man doesn't have a sin nature in some way. If he didn't, then the statement that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God doesn't add up with the scriptures above (in my mind).