Can Anyone Explain 'Why gay marriage?'

glassjester

Well-known member
Hi, again....
Question: Was the Popes declaration, or decree, that Magdalene was a prostitute...doctrine?
Was a later Pope's apology and decree that Magdalene was not a prostitute, doctrine?

No. Pope Gregory the Great was giving a homily (non-Catholics would call it a sermon), when he said Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. A homily is not a declaration of doctrine. It is not an ex-cathedra teaching of the Church. Do you know how many ex-cathedra teachings there have been in 2000 years of Church history? Only two.


Oh, Glassjester, I have no former knowledge of Catholicism at all. Nor any now.
I read something about Papal auithority whilst in St Peters chair from another member.
Please, would you clarify the extent of the Pope's powers about Church doctrine?

Sure.

For a Pope's words to be considered an infallible, ex-cathedra teaching, he must explicitly...
1. Define a belief to be held by the entire Church.
2. Speak in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority.
3. Define a doctrine concerning faith or morals.

Again - this has happened only twice in history.


If you wish to know the teachings of the Catholic Church, here they are: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
 

Lon

Well-known member
Oh my.....
Just what are you talking about?
You actually think that Jesu was an Eastern Aramaic name?
And Petros....... You think that Galilean dislect Easter Aramaic for 'stone' or 'rock' was Petros?
Lest you get lost in the forest: hairsplitting. :plain:

I don't debate for any of them, but 'Bahauallah' does nlot mean 'prophet'........ you obviously didn't cover all religions in your studies.
"...you obviously didn't...." :yawn:

ThB and MA, eh? Earlier you boasted that you had 'several degrees'.
....and they were 'College degrees', yet now you claim a Master of Arts, with no accompanying bacheloreate 'of arts'?
I think I'm done here.....
Must be a British confusion, wrong on both degrees. Doesn't bother me what you think or don't. I think, honestly, you just like baiting and arguing. You've been horrible to a few good people this thread. Some have you on ignore because of this behavior. Imho, you are your own worst enemy, you make enemies first, ask questions later.
Confirmation bias? :think: I think it would explain a lot about you.


This your reply to my point that various Churches have accepted SSM otr SCP?

You don't know a bit of what is going on here. While you and I have covered 'some' of the OP material (negligible), my purpose was more to address you. You aren't nearly innocent enough to be anybody's judge. You aren't that sharp, aren't that great. Keep working on knowing God. Matthew 6:33 " seek FIRST the kingdom of God and HIS righteousness..." It doesn't take a BA or MA.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
I think, honestly, you just like baiting and arguing. You've been horrible to a few good people this thread. Some have you on ignore because of this behavior. Imho, you are your own worst enemy, you make enemies first, ask questions later.

yeah - it would have been interesting to have a conversation with him about his views of social stratification (and whether physicians, innkeepers, owners of fishing boats, etc were "peasants") but why waste time with a jerk? :idunno:
 

eider

Well-known member
No. Pope Gregory the Great was giving a homily (non-Catholics would call it a sermon), when he said Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. A homily is not a declaration of doctrine. It is not an ex-cathedra teaching of the Church. Do you know how many ex-cathedra teachings there have been in 2000 years of Church history? Only two.

Sure.

For a Pope's words to be considered an infallible, ex-cathedra teaching, he must explicitly...
1. Define a belief to be held by the entire Church.
2. Speak in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority.
3. Define a doctrine concerning faith or morals.

Again - this has happened only twice in history.

If you wish to know the teachings of the Catholic Church, here they are: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

Wow.... now that is a clear explanation.
So... basically, no new 'policy' with regard to SSM is ever, ever likely to be adopted by the Catholic Church?

On the side:- Look at the influence that any Pope can have. When Pope Gregory mentioned that Magdalene was a prostitute his homily raced around the entire World entering most Christian faiths and religions, and if I was to carry out a street survey in my local city (in England) asking that same question of (mostly) Protestant passers-by, I reckong that at least 50% of the answers would be positive, that Magdalene had been a prostitute. My point is that the present Pope's comments about Gays may not be able to influence your Church, but they're bound to make a massive difference within other Churches, Denominations and Creeds. Now that's Catholic influence in all Christianity for you.
 

eider

Well-known member
yeah - it would have been interesting to have a conversation with him about his views of social stratification (and whether physicians, innkeepers, owners of fishing boats, etc were "peasants") but why waste time with a jerk? :idunno:

Ah ha! Hello dosey! So you finally thought of an answer...?
Dosey, there was no middle class......... If you think that Galilee was full of inns and physicians then you've really lost the plot. None of the disciples owned a fishing boat and folks like Zebedee probably had the same status as peasant farmers. You'll be telling me that Galilee was full of Romans next.... :rotfl:

Honestly dosey..... you chuck your insults about, whilst showing the World that you are those very insults.
 

eider

Well-known member
Lest you get lost in the forest: hairsplitting. :plain:
What?
You claim such knowledge about Jesus and the disciples yet you did not know that Yeshua's given name to Simon BarJona'' was 'Cephas'? You thought it was Greek Petros? You think that's splitting hairs? You're a joke, Lon.

You've been horrible to a few good people this thread.
Wrong..,.. I have debated a firm case for SSM on this thread, and so far nobody has cut communications with me 'because of this thread'. One sweet member could not cope with the fact that I could show that Jesus supported genderlessness on another thread, screaming 'sicko' at me.... and another member also doesn't like losing.

If you thionk that I have been unnacceptably aggressive or abusive then you need to report to a moderator.
 

glassjester

Well-known member
Wow.... now that is a clear explanation.
So... basically, no new 'policy' with regard to SSM is ever, ever likely to be adopted by the Catholic Church?

It will not (and cannot) happen. Marriage is already doctrinally defined.


On the side:- Look at the influence that any Pope can have. When Pope Gregory mentioned that Magdalene was a prostitute his homily raced around the entire World entering most Christian faiths and religions, and if I was to carry out a street survey in my local city (in England) asking that same question of (mostly) Protestant passers-by, I reckong that at least 50% of the answers would be positive, that Magdalene had been a prostitute. My point is that the present Pope's comments about Gays may not be able to influence your Church, but they're bound to make a massive difference within other Churches, Denominations and Creeds. Now that's Catholic influence in all Christianity for you.

Yes, Francis' comments are heard by the world. At the same time, the world only hears what it wants to hear. So what has Francis said about homosexual marriage?

From paragraph 251 of Amoris Laetitia:
"There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family.”


How many "moderate" Christian churches (lukewarm Christians - Revelation 3:16) have jumped on that quote? None. The world hears what it wants to hear.
 

eider

Well-known member
It will not (and cannot) happen. Marriage is already doctrinally defined.




Yes, Francis' comments are heard by the world. At the same time, the world only hears what it wants to hear. So what has Francis said about homosexual marriage?

From paragraph 251 of Amoris Laetitia:
"There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family.”


How many "moderate" Christian churches (lukewarm Christians - Revelation 3:16) have jumped on that quote? None. The world hears what it wants to hear.


Ah yes.... True...
But even so, churches, or many of them, are softening their stance upon gay clergy, gay unions, gay civil partnership, and even ssm.

If you believe that a majority of humanity will spend eternity writhing in hellish agony over this and other things, then that is what you believe. I personally do not think that you will suffer such fate, but many other religions do think you will. So it's all down to majorities in the west.

UK doctors have pushed the government to repeal part of the 1967 abortion section which classes unsanctioned abortion as murder. I personally think this is a very bad policy, to relax our law on this, but it's majorities that decide.

Your Popes kind words about gays will influence folks around the world.
 

glassjester

Well-known member
Ah yes.... True...
But even so, churches, or many of them, are softening their stance upon gay clergy, gay unions, gay civil partnership, and even ssm.

Then they're softening their stance on Christianity.
They're seeking popularity. They will gain the world, at the cost of their souls.


If you believe that a majority of humanity will spend eternity writhing in hellish agony over this and other things, then that is what you believe. I personally do not think that you will suffer such fate, but many other religions do think you will. So it's all down to majorities in the west.

Well... the gate is narrow.


UK doctors have pushed the government to repeal part of the 1967 abortion section which classes unsanctioned abortion as murder. I personally think this is a very bad policy, to relax our law on this, but it's majorities that decide.

It is refreshing to see you acknowledging a difference between morality and majority. The majority can be wrong.


Your Popes kind words about gays will influence folks around the world.

I hope so. He has told us to treat them lovingly. He is right.

As far as influence on homosexual marriage - no, Pope Francis hasn't caused any Christian denominations to allow such heresy. Those churches were doing what they wanted to do anyway. They are of the world.
 

Lon

Well-known member
What?
You claim such knowledge about Jesus and the disciples yet you did not know that Yeshua's given name to Simon BarJona'' was 'Cephas'? You thought it was Greek Petros? You think that's splitting hairs? You're a joke, Lon.
Yes, I knew :sigh: Hair-splitting over nothing. Names aren't gonna get-er-done. If that's your only expertise, it is the actual sad joke. Stop your inanity. This was freshman year stuff :doh:

Wrong..,.. I have debated a firm case for SSM on this thread, and so far nobody has cut communications with me 'because of this thread'. One sweet member could not cope with the fact that I could show that Jesus supported genderlessness on another thread, screaming 'sicko' at me.... and another member also doesn't like losing.
See, this is why people put you on ignore. Proverbs 27:15; 18:2 You should spend a few days in Proverbs so you don't keep stepping into the pitfalls noted there-in, imho. Take it or leave it. I'm about done. You are into personal attacks and more vitriolic than any Christian you'd point the finger at.

If you thionk that I have been unnacceptably aggressive or abusive then you need to report to a moderator.
When I do, it will be for trolling. Haven't you been paying attention to your betters this thread? Nobody is thinking you are anything but contentious. You are now, just attacking 'me' and haven't been on the OP for awhile now. Does it amuse you? :noway:
 

glassjester

Well-known member
ThB and MA, eh? Earlier you boasted that you had 'several degrees'.
....and they were 'College degrees', yet now you claim a Master of Arts, with no accompanying bacheloreate 'of arts'?

I have a BA, but an MS. It's not necessarily always BS+MS or BA+MA.

Why does it matter, anyway?

As far as religion goes - all I've got is a minor in religious studies. Yikes. I guess I am unqualified to speak.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lon

eider

Well-known member
Then they're softening their stance on Christianity.
They're seeking popularity. They will gain the world, at the cost of their souls.
What profiteth a man.... ?
Much of the World does not believe you.
Many Catholics have shown that they do not believe you....... true? Look at how some famous Catholics have lived...
What I'm trying to say is this..... If you are right, then a tiny miniscule % of humanity will attain to salvation. But millions of Christians see Christianity and 'the way' differently to you, and differently to each other.
In the meantime the Western World is deciding to give gays the chance of happiness together, with legal and physical security and acceptance.
I would, and do, vote for that, with no agenda other than for as much freedom in love and happiness as possible.

Well... the gate is narrow.
Well, yes, but Christians differ on how to perceive Christianity, let alone a narrow gate of salvation. There are many Christian Gays who perceive that they are living their Christianity correctly, and would let you follow your path by your faith. The Western World wants them to make their choices, and take their chances.

What did you say in another post... We all see what we want to see? Everybody thinks that they have chosen a right path.... look at some members here who are ardent Christians and are prepared to kill, execute slowly, bomb etc.... for their faith. Look at the paths that true Christian love can take.
I always thought that Catholicism was very extreme..... until I came here.
You're a moderate Christian by any definition.

It is refreshing to see you acknowledging a difference between morality and majority. The majority can be wrong.
Well, most UK doctors seem to think that their opinion is moral. We all think that our individual views are decent and good. The majority is a surging mob, moving mindlessly forward, crushing all before. It's just a matter of luck as to whether the general mindset of the majority is benign, or malignant.

I hope so. He has told us to treat them lovingly. He is right.
That is a solid and Christian attitude.
Some contorted versions of Christianity show gormless morons waving homophobic placards at gay funerals.
These so called Christians could almost be myther atheists who go out in search of gays to subject them to a sharia kind of violent justice.... in the name of Jesus. They have helped to turn the World away from Christianity more than anybody else, imo. Christianity's worst enemy is a hatreful self-righteous bigot p[osing as a Christian.

As far as influence on homosexual marriage - no, Pope Francis hasn't caused any Christian denominations to allow such heresy. Those churches were doing what they wanted to do anyway. They are of the world.
Hmmm..... I think that a sentence from the Pope could adjust billions of mindsets, far flung from Catholicism.
 

eider

Well-known member
I have a BA, but an MS. It's not necessarily always BS+MS or BA+MA.

Why does it matter, anyway?
Look...... when a person claims several degrees, one of them a ThB yet doesn't know what Jesus called Simon BarJonah..... believing somehow that Galileans gave each other Greek names, then I smile. But when a person is making such claims withion an aggressive, arrogant, nasty post to me then they are 'open season'.
I would never attack a person who made brave boats, unless they were trying (in some way) to bully.

On the side......... You are a Master of Science? Wow!

As far as religion goes - all I've got is a minor in religious studies. Yikes. I guess I am unqualified to speak.
You know that's not true. You know that a person't knowledge and experience shows in their action and conversation.

My only qualification is a decade of intensive study in Historical Jesus. That's different to Christianity which I don't know much about. It started in 1994 when my annual project was to read the KJV and New English bibles. That raised my interest in Jesus. But I do know some things. A man on a bus recently boasted that he had just been ordained by his church. Two polite questions showed that the poor bloke didnn't actually know what ordination is.
 
Top