Can Anyone Explain 'Why gay marriage?'

eider

Well-known member
Of course He fulfilled His mission. And He taught all that He intended to teach. But we also know that not all of His words and actions are recorded in the Gospels (John 21:25). And we know that the Apostles continued to teach and preach after the Ascension. The Apostles - including, later, Paul.
Well, of course, John BarZebedee would have been between 90-110 years of age when he wrote his gospel, so I do suppose that he might have left out or forgotten some of his experiences (John 21:24), but you are now telling me that God decided not to include every act, deed or word of note in His all important message to the world? OK......
But rather than "turning this around," let's settle on a clear answer to my previous question. Are Paul's writings in the NT the inspired Word of God or not?
I can only let Paul nswer for himself.
1 Corinthians 7:12
You see, sometimes Paul writes that he writes for God, on other occasions Paul explains that he does not write for God, and that leaves me in doubt about all those writings where Paul does not tell us, one way or t'other......

But you have written that the gospels are an incomplete message from Jesus..... fair enough.
 

eider

Well-known member
None but Christianity is Christian. Once any one of them rejects any scripture, such is no longer following Christ.
...that's probably what many of the other 3000 Creeds, Churches and Denominations say about your faith.
 

eider

Well-known member

I didn't know about this.........
Specialists believe that the Gospel of John was written circa 100-120 AD, so John BarZebedee would have been many decades older than the average lifespan for a Galilean peasant, although I don't know if Galilean boatmen might have had longer lifespans as an average.

But I tend to focus on Gospel of Mark mostly....... just my whim, if you like.

Thanks again for the info.
 

eider

Well-known member
No it doesn't! :doh: I live around alcoholics. "Loving" them isn't saying 'have another drink!'" :doh:

I've watched alcoholics die around me. I take every opportunity to tell them to knock it off! That isn't hate.

Talking about their bad habits, as if I don't like those habits, is NOT hate. Yelling at them for what they are doing to themselves, friends, and family is NOT hate! You people will never learn.... :(
........
You people will never learn....


Is that what you shout at the alcoholics?
 

eider

Well-known member
Your values, not mine.

Those of Jesus, actually..... Matthew {5:22} But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

...so remember that, every time you call anybody a retard.
Stop cherry-picking your Christian values.

Theft is more a problem of the heart than 'what' is taken. Taking from anybody is putting self above others and against the 2nd Law our Lord Jesus Christ gave.
Oh really? !!
It rather depends on the individual action.
Some people dishonestly appropriate millions...... I would hate to accept their plea that the action was a hiccup of the heart. But an old lady pushing some asparagus into her bag because she hasn't had any in many months just needs customer care.
I hope you don't work in the reatil trade....


You accused me of being more 'Paul' than Jesus (false dichotomy).
Yes! Surely did!

Never-the-less, the two commands of our Lord Jesus Christ are in my sig and life application. I hate sin. Love people. Even you (not by last on any order). Wanting people to know and follow the Lord Jesus Christ, as Designer/Owner of us, is the highest love. There is nothing higher. -Lon

Then you really should show more........ love.
 

eider

Well-known member
No another church has walked away from God right into darkness and lies,sadly.

These Churches believe that they are with God.
Even the Pope has shown some 'leniency' towards Gays.

The Churches are moving towards freedom of sexuality, and more freedom to marry.
Apart from your own and some other Churches, the Jehovah Witnesses, the Shia, Sunni, Kurdish and Amadiyah Muslims.
 

eider

Well-known member
you're talking about people claiming that their inherent sexual orientation is toward members of their own sex, which is a perversion, same as those who claim to be "oriented" toward animals, or children ....

Howe you love to link 'Gays wishing to marry' to sexual criminals.
Twisted mind, or twisted heart?
 

kiwimacahau

Well-known member
and so, we have i-durrrr, who rejects the parts of the NT that he disagrees with, especially anything by Paul that he disagrees with :dizzy:

and we got kiwimachoo, who, challenged on his nonsense:

replies by discarding the whole "woman taken in adultery" tale :doh:



and of course, these retards get props from the rest of the retard brigade
Do some research and just for once think for yourself. The pericope adulterae is simply not there is the earliest MS. This is not just my contention but the agreed position of scholars who've spent most of their lives researching.

Sent from my SM-A500Y using Tapatalk
 

glassjester

Well-known member
Your posts don't magically change into something wonderful and loving just because you change who you are talking about.

There plenty of lifestyles people lead that you don't approve of. I am sure you do not hate those people, or even advocate hate against those people.

Am I right about that?
 

glassjester

Well-known member
But you have written that the gospels are an incomplete message from Jesus..... fair enough.

True. If you read only the Gospels, then you have read an incomplete New Testament. This, I wager, is self-evident fact. Do you disagree?



I have two other questions:

1. Do you dismiss any of the New Testament as not the inspired Word of God?
2. If so, what is your criteria for deciding which writings to dismiss?
 

eider

Well-known member
Do some research and just for once think for yourself. The pericope adulterae is simply not there is the earliest MS. This is not just my contention but the agreed position of scholars who've spent most of their lives researching.

.... It's like the last verses of G-Mark, and much (if not all) of the Josephus paragraph.

It could be that ardent Christians felt that they were doing God's work by editing various passages which they felt might have been unclear. Who knows?

But as you mention, language, writing-style, translation and other specialists have been discovering more and more about the New Testament writings.
 

eider

Well-known member
True. If you read only the Gospels, then you have read an incomplete New Testament. This, I wager, is self-evident fact. Do you disagree?
IMO the Gospels give a description of Jesus's mission, Acts gives a description of what happened in the years after Jesus, and the books and letters after that describe the growth of the Christian Churches.


I have two other questions:

1. Do you dismiss any of the New Testament as not the inspired Word of God?
2. If so, what is your criteria for deciding which writings to dismiss?

I'll leave Paul to answer that:-
1 Corinthians 7:12
You see, sometimes Paul writes that he writes for God, on other occasions Paul explains that he does not write for God, and there are many writings where Paul does not tell us, one way or t'other......
 

dodge

New member
These Churches believe that they are with God.
Even the Pope has shown some 'leniency' towards Gays.

The Churches are moving towards freedom of sexuality, and more freedom to marry.
Apart from your own and some other Churches, the Jehovah Witnesses, the Shia, Sunni, Kurdish and Amadiyah Muslims.

Evil hearts produce evil results as in churches and or people moving into sin and rebellion against God.

Luke 6:45-47Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
 

glassjester

Well-known member
I'll leave Paul to answer that:-
1 Corinthians 7:12
You see, sometimes Paul writes that he writes for God, on other occasions Paul explains that he does not write for God, and there are many writings where Paul does not tell us, one way or t'other......

You seem to base your dismissal of Paul's authority... on Paul's authority. :think:
 

eider

Well-known member
45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Well then...... bearing in mind the posts of yours that I have read on other threads, if you believe it, live it!
 

eider

Well-known member
You seem to base your dismissal of Paul's authority... on Paul's authority. :think:

No...... I simply read Paul explaining himself.
As simple as that.


However, you accept every single word of the NT as God's word, and that is your standard.

I don't judge folks by any standard of mine, I look to see what standards they set for themselves, and then see if they can keep to those. I think I know what standards you have set for yourself now.
:idunno:
 

Lon

Well-known member
Those of Jesus, actually..... Matthew {5:22} But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
:nono: All sin is hell-worthy because it comes from the heart. Mark 7:20.
The reason I disagree with you is 'because' you think some 'sins' are 'okay.' :nono:

...so remember that, every time you call anybody a retard.
Stop cherry-picking your Christian values.
Er, try NOT to treat everybody on TOL the same. I don't call people retards. I "do" tell them when I'm better educated or thinking better than they, but I try to even keep that in check. So your 'stop cherry-picking' isn't what I do. In fact, those who treat gay-sexual misbehavior and sin as if it isn't, are the ones that cherry pick. Look at your post and above comments, you, in fact, think some sins are worse and, in fact, think some of them will not condemn a man/woman to hell. Me? All of them. Mark 7:20 Which of us is cherry-picking? Me? :idunno:

Oh really? !!
It rather depends on the individual action.
Some people dishonestly appropriate millions...... I would hate to accept their plea that the action was a hiccup of the heart. But an old lady pushing some asparagus into her bag because she hasn't had any in many months just needs customer care.
I hope you don't work in the reatil trade....
The dead will bury the dead. Matthew 6:25 Do you even read the Lord Jesus Christ, let alone Paul? Where is your soul? You seem incredibly caught in the cares and concerns of this world. I've worked in a foodbank. You? God takes care of people. Those who muzzle the ox are sinning. It is ALL sin, Eider.

Yes! Surely did!
I know and follow the Lord Jesus Christ, more than you do. YET I do not neglect Paul either, but follow him as he follows the Lord Jesus Christ.
People concerned about earthly matters, do not keep both commands. There are two. Do both OR you do neither.
Do you even recognize, btw, your own hypocrisy? You push back as good as you get on TOL. You judge men, then, that they are unloving while doing the same thing. Romans 2:1 I try to always see my three fingers pointing back. AT LEAST I'm not a hypocrite (and yet often enough am when I first look :( ) How about you?

Then you really should show more........ love.
False dichotomy. Just because you don't have love back doesn't mean it wasn't shown.
Think about it: "Get thee behind me Satan!" Nice? :nono: Loving? Yes.
Why? I learned a paradigm I will share with you (if you don't want it, don't take it, its free and in good faith):
John 4:23 "Truth/Relationship" You cannot have relationships that are godly, without truth. You cannot share truth, without relationship though it 'may' build a relationship. I truly appreciate anybody on TOL, as mean as they are about it, if they show me the truth and, importantly, I love them for it. We can coddle and I value it BUT love can be tough. "Get thee behind me, Satan!" was harsh! "Nice" doesn't mean love, though it is certainly part of the fruit of the Spirit in goodness and gentleness. Yet, the Lord Jesus Christ wasn't being wrong when He turned temple-changer tables and whipped men, nor was He wrong in saying "Get thee behind me, Satan!" Harsh isn't always unloving. Scripture says to "BE ANGRY!" "...& sin not," is the afterthought about "Be angry." It is okay to be angry sometimes, Eider. We are to mourn with those who mourn, rejoice with those truly in the joy of the Lord, etc. etc. LOVE those you interact with. Pray for them and pray for a love for them. I did and do for you. Did you for me? :think:

:e4e: -Lon

If it helps, I too hate harsh and don't prefer it, but Hebrews 12:4-13 Nobody likes discipline. Without it, we are illegitimate. Kiwi-ray doesn't like it. He puts me on ignore. TOL isn't for the feint-hearted. It is very much and iron-sharpens-iron prospect here. Such isn't anti-Christian. It is just very unexpected. Other sites do better as far as the gentle approach. Like you, I appreciate those too.

........
You people will never learn....


Is that what you shout at the alcoholics?
No, and just to help you: you'd normally see quotes around such if that were the intention.

...that's probably what many of the other 3000 Creeds, Churches and Denominations say about your faith.

Nope. Most of us adhere to the creeds that already existed. Do yourself a favor, go online and look up about 20 statements of faith from different
denominations. You'll note they all look the same with little to no variation. Even Kiwi's statement of faith wouldn't be much different. We argue about application of those truths, not the creeds themselves.
I didn't know about this.........
Specialists believe that the Gospel of John was written circa 100-120 AD, so John BarZebedee would have been many decades older than the average lifespan for a Galilean peasant, although I don't know if Galilean boatmen might have had longer lifespans as an average.

But I tend to focus on Gospel of Mark mostly....... just my whim, if you like.

Thanks again for the info.
Waste of time, bible corrector instead of follower. All he was asked was what the last thing said was. Instead of saying "go and sin no more" it wound up being this mess. Ray isn't a bible believer, he is a charlatan bible corrector, internet searcher.

The answer was "Go and sin no more."
 

glassjester

Well-known member
No...... I simply read Paul explaining himself.
As simple as that.


However, you accept every single word of the NT as God's word, and that is your standard.

I don't judge folks by any standard of mine, I look to see what standards they set for themselves, and then see if they can keep to those. I think I know what standards you have set for yourself now.
:idunno:

Alright.

It seems that we cannot discuss whether God's Word calls homosexual activity sinful - because you do not accept the New Testament as God's Word.

I wonder... what Scripture do you believe constitutes God's Word, and on what basis? That may be put aside for a separate thread.


We can discuss the legality of homosexual marriage, though.
From a strictly legal standpoint - what do you say marriage is?
 
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