Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

[Robert Pate]

Another keeper to add to my collection of just how far you are outside the camp, Robert.

They are creatures, not God.

AMR

What is it that you think God is doing today on the earth?

ANGEL: A supernatural or heavenly being a little higher in dignity than man. They are Spirits, Hebrews 1:14.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

What is it that you think God is doing today on the earth?

He is upholding all His creation, Robert, including indwelling the believers here on earth. :AMR:

You are worrying me. Do you think God is but a watchmaker that wound everything up and then sat back to watch what would happen?

If God's providence is not working right now in each of us, all would simply cease to exist. A healthy respect for God's maintenance of his creation sees God as constantly active, and having decreed even ordinary causation that prevents accidents, saves from death at the last minute, gives necessary strength to recover from illness, etc. And all without recourse to His constant supervening in the midst of his regular acts.

ANGEL: A supernatural or heavenly being a little higher in dignity than man. They are Spirits, Hebrews 1:14.

They are created, that is creatures. How do you assume they possess the same attributes of God, as in aseity, omniscience, omnipresence, or omnipotence? That would make the creature equivalent to God. Do you think the devil can be everywhere at once? Do you think the devil knows everything God knows?

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

He is upholding all His creation, Robert, including indwelling the believers here on earth. :AMR:

You are worrying me. Do you think God is but a watchmaker that wound everything up and then sat back to watch what would happen?

If God's providence is not working right now in each of us, all would simply cease to exist. A healthy respect for God's maintenance of his creation sees God as constantly active, and having decreed even ordinary causation that prevents accidents, saves from death at the last minute, gives necessary strength to recover from illness, etc. And all without recourse to His constant supervening in the midst of his regular acts.

They are created, that is creatures. How do you assume they possess the same attributes of God, as in aseity, omniscience, omnipresence, or omnipotence? That would make the creature equivalent to God. Do you think the devil can be everywhere at once? Do you think the devil knows everything God knows?

AMR

I Know a lot of good Christian people that have died from cancer and other horrible things. What do you have to say for them?

The truth of the matter is that the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

 

[ttruscott]

The "inheritance" is salvation, sanctification and glorification. This is God's great free gift to all who believe on his Son Jesus Christ.

This is God's predestinated will and purpose for his people.

Of course it is and THIS SALVATION TO HEAVEN IS PREDESTINED...
Ephesians 1:11 ...also we have obtained an inheritance, HAVING BEEN PREDESTINED according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.

WHICH YOU DENIED.

 

[ttruscott]

On the cross, and because of the cross, the elect are reconciled to God. Because of the cross, the elect are predestined.

Rather,
the elect ARE reconciled by the cross but they are NOT elected by the cross because election is a promise that they will be saved and the cross is the fulfillment of that promise which was given before the foundation of the world.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I Know a lot of good Christian people that have died from cancer and other horrible things. What do you have to say for them?

We should mourn their travails, for all creation groans in its corruption, awaiting the day all tears will be wiped away. We should rejoice when we suffer as we suffer in a small way but in communion with Our Lord's suffering. We should know that, while Scripture does not give all the reasons for suffering, it does give us some things to cling to.

Spoiler

Why Suffering in the World?

We believers in orthodox Christendom do not not believe that "purposeless suffering" exists. God is wholly sovereign, therefore there is nothing that happens in the universe that is not outside of his purview and control. Recall that even the devil had to get permission from God to visit suffering upon Job. This is why Luther remarked, "Satan is God's devil."

This is a deeply personal topic for me. My dear wife has suffered for many years, confined to her bed most days, unable to think clearly, often endangering herself and those around her, and in requiring my 24-hr/7-day personal care for all her needs. It is sometimes enervating for me, as it confines me to be at her bedside many hours of the day, and I do ask God "why?" often, but never with my fist extended heavenward in anger. Frustration, yes. Anger, never.

There is suffering in the world for many reasons. We cannot understand all the reasons for these things, for a transcendent (extending or lying beyond the limits of ordinary experience) God is after all, knowable only in a limited sense by our finite minds. When we see suffering and seemingly meaningless evil, it is difficult to believe that there is a purpose in it. Yet we know that God must have a morally sufficient reason for permitting evil to occur, for he is certainly able to eliminate evil in this world.

We know God is righteous, and thus we must trust that some greater good comes from God's decision to not eliminate evil. As in the case of Joseph, who suffered greatly at the hands of his brothers and others, yet explained to them, in Genesis 50:20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.

We need not look further than the Cross to see how the most evil act in human history, the crucifixion of our Lord, was purposed by God to bring about the greatest good possible—eternal life for God’s people.

So these are just two examples that teach us that God, being perfectly holy, wills righteously those things which men do wickedly. Now I am not arguing that the evil we see in this world is not really evil. There is no doubt that genuine evil is present. But there is also no doubt that evil occurs only because God actively (not passively) permits it for reasons He has not chosen to fully reveal to us. Perhaps God does not reveal the reasons because we are just incapable of understanding the reason, or for His own good and wise counsel (Duet. 29:29)

For example, think about finding an animal with its leg caught in a trap. To extricate the poor creature you will have to perhaps push the trap deeper into its leg in order to release the locking mechanism, causing great pain. To the animal, which cannot comprehend what you are doing or why you are doing it, your action appears that just more evil is being inflicted upon it. Yet, the reality is, from your vantage point as a being with much higher intelligence and state of being than the animal, that you are actually freeing the creature from its predicament, albeit with the short-term required pain that accompanies your actions.

Yet another analogy is treatment of children by doctors. Sometimes that treatment is very painful and the child cannot fully understand why he or she must suffer at the hands of a person who is supposed to be healing them, yet the treatment brings about a greater good in the child’s life.

I think if we look carefully in the Scriptures we can determine some of the reasons for suffering.

First suffering can be a test of faith such as described in
1Pe 1:7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith--more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire--may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Second, suffering can be a sanctifying experience. Joseph saw how an apparent evil towards him was meant for a greater good by God:
Gen 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

Third, suffering could be a chastisement as the result of sin in a person’s life. Chastisement does not mean complete and total rejection by God, only that our souls may be cleansed from the malady of sin. Paul spoke of this chastisement:
1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
1Co 11:30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

Yet, not all illnesses or sickness is the result of sin. Christ clearly said as much:
John 9:1 As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth.
John 9:2 And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
John 9:3 Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

We see here that Christ did not imply that the man or his parents had not sinned. He meant that the man’s blindness was not a direct result of sin in their lives. God had actively permitted (willfully ordained) this man to be born blind in order that the man might become a means of displaying the mighty works of God. Before the man was born, the Christ knew He would give sight to those blind eyes.

Fourth, suffering can sometimes be considered a means by which we display the sympathy of Christ in a practical manner, thus proving our faith through works. The Apostle Paul notes:
Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

The afflictions endured by Paul in his flesh were for the sake of Christ's body, namely, the church. The sufferings of non-believing people are, in one sense, purposeless. There is no high dignity attached to these sufferings. The sufferings of the non-believer are only a foretaste of the torment of hell to be endured forever. But the suffering of the believer is not the same. When believers suffer for Christ, Christ in a very real way suffers with them.

Fifth, suffering can be a means by which we are tempered (strengthened) for the eventualities to come. Christ, when speaking to Peter of his eventual death stated:
John 21:18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.

As in the old saying, “what doesn’t kill you, sometimes makes you stronger”, suffering can build us up so that we are better prepared for the future and its travails.

Sixth, suffering can be used as a Christian witness to others of God’s unmerited grace. All watch how we believers bear our suffering. Our attitude (spoken and unspoken) towards an illness, accident, etc. and our reception of illness, accident, etc., speak volumes when our explicit spoken testimony of faith is rejected.

Seventh, suffering is sometimes a means of weaning us from the things of this world to cause us to draw nearer to God. Suffering should be a means of educating us to the prospect of heaven. This earthly world is not the home of the believer. We are pilgrims and strangers here on this fallen mortal coil whose citizenship is in another place. Our minds should be focused on things invisible and not in the temporal things of this life.

We must remember that with the fall of mankind in Eden sin entered the world, corrupting earth and all its inhabitants. Thus we have sin directly causing suffering when sinful people commit sinful acts. We have sin causing suffering indirectly by the deteriorating earth and all its natural disasters.

Eighth, suffering is actually a means by which we can comfort others, so there is a fellowship of suffering in some cases.
2Co 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2Co 1:4 who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
2Co 1:5 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too.

Christ told us that we would suffer in this world:
John 16:33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.

But why doesn’t God just stop evil actions that cause innocent people to suffer?

Jer 12:1 Righteous are you, O LORD, when I complain to you; yet I would plead my case before you. Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all who are treacherous thrive?
Jer 12:2 You plant them, and they take root; they grow and produce fruit; you are near in their mouth and far from their heart.

So in the end, some still like to ask questions like: Why doesn’t God intervene to stop evil if He is all-loving and all-powerful? Why doesn’t He stop the drunk driver’s car that is going to crash into a bus? Why doesn’t He deflect the murderer’s bullets?

The person asking these questions doesn’t really want God to stop all their evil actions. They don’t want to be invisibly gagged every time they’re about to say something hurtful; they don’t want to stub their toe when they try to kick the dog. They just think it would be good if God stopped certain evil acts or just the evil acts of others. But that would make life impossible. There would be no freedoms, no regularity and no personal responsibility.

Having said this, we must never forget that God is not indifferent to our sufferings for we have the Helper, the Holy Spirit, to bear our travails with us. Moreover, God's grace restrains sin and sinners so that we can appreciate mercy and unmerited grace in light of sin. If God did not do so our streets would be running with the blood of and drawn by the reprobate.

See also Piper and Taylor’s, Suffering and the Sovereignty of God available for purchase here.

AMR

The truth of the matter is that the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

The truth of the matter is that the rain falls because God so ordained it to fall, all according to His good and wise purposes.

AMR

 

[ttruscott]

I personally see free will and predestination co-existing a bit intellectually dishonest.

Reformed Christians aren't all the same- some believe in at least a vestige of free will, others don't.

Obviously, I'm one of those who don't. I don't feel that free will has any room in true predestination, but is rather an illusion.

Our free will is a delusion on earth but because free will is a theological necessity to keep GOD at arm's length from the creation of evil and to make sinners truly guilty for their sinful state then it is a small leap to consider that we had a time of an uncoerced free will before we lost our free will by choosing to be evil in HIS sight which enslaved us to sin and destroyed our free will.

Once under the enslaving addiction to evil with no free will but only an evil will, HE can easily predestine HIS sinful elect's lives on earth so that they will be redeemed and sanctified according to HIS promise of election.

 

[Robert Pate]

Of course it is and THIS SALVATION TO HEAVEN IS PREDESTINED...
Ephesians 1:11 ...also we have obtained an inheritance, HAVING BEEN PREDESTINED according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.

WHICH YOU DENIED.

God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:19. It was God's plan and purpose to provide salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

"In whom you also trusted , AFTER YOU HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Our free will is a delusion on earth but because free will is a theological necessity to keep GOD at arm's length from the creation of evil and to make sinners truly guilty for their sinful state then it is a small leap to consider that we had a time of an uncoerced free will before we lost our free will by choosing to be evil in HIS sight which enslaved us to sin and destroyed our free will.

Once under the enslaving addiction to evil with no free will but only an evil will, HE can easily predestine HIS sinful elect's lives on earth so that they will be redeemed and sanctified according to HIS promise of election.

Any Scripture to back ALL that up?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

True enough. But not always. Does it matter how many people read a post, if it brings glory to God?

It would be best to have readers. The Bible brings Glory to God,
but in how many homes does it lie on top of a table gathering dust?

 

[ttruscott]

God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:19. It was God's plan and purpose to provide salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

"In whom you also trusted , AFTER YOU HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

FIRST you deny predestination all together three times:

No one has been predestinated. There is no scripture that says anyone has been predestinated to heaven or to hell. It is a false doctrine.

The doctrine of predestination is in conflict with the Gospel and the grace of God that is taught in the Bible.

There is not one scripture in the whole Bible about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell.

Its a fairy tale.

THEN you claim that our inheritance in Eph 1:22 which we are predestined to receive IS SALVATION in:

The "inheritance" is salvation, sanctification and glorification. This is God's great free gift to all who believe on his Son Jesus Christ.

This is God's predestinated will and purpose for his people.

How can we beleive anything you write when you go in circles like this???

 

[ttruscott]

God calls everyone to come to Christ. Not just "some certain persons".

Have you not heard that God loves the world, John 3:16.

Have you never read that some are not HIS children, therefore no within HIS Love? Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have acted corruptly toward Him; they are not His children because of their defect but are a perverse and crooked generation. or: their defect is that they are not HIS children...

 

[Crucible]

I made a thread pertaining to these verses, as they excellently support Reformed belief.

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.


Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[beloved57]

You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

Those Christ died for are saved by His death alone, while they are unbelievers Rom 5:10 ! Nobody is Lost that Christ died for, lest you believe that His death did not save them He died for !

 

[beloved57]

God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:19. It was God's plan and purpose to provide salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

"In whom you also trusted , AFTER YOU HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

Thats False teaching, theres no scripture that states "it was Gods plan and purpose to provide salvation for everyone"

 

[beloved57]

pate

God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:19

Thats the Elect World, for many people are still under Gods condemnation and wrath in unbelief Jn 3:18,36 ! They are not reconciled to God !

 

[Robert Pate]

pate



Thats the Elect World, for many people are still under Gods condemnation and wrath in unbelief Jn 3:18,36 ! They are not reconciled to God !

As usual you are in conflict with the word of God.

"And you that were alienated and ENEMIES in your mind by wicked works , yet now HAS HE RECONCILED" Colossians 1:21.

 

[Robert Pate]

Thats False teaching, theres no scripture that states "it was Gods plan and purpose to provide salvation for everyone"

You are always going against what the Bible teaches.

"That he by the grace of God should taste death for everyone" Hebrews 2:9.

 

[beloved57]

You are always going against what the Bible teaches.

"That he by the grace of God should taste death for everyone" Hebrews 2:9.

That's the Elect World!

 

[Robert Pate]

We should mourn their travails, for all creation groans in its corruption, awaiting the day all tears will be wiped away. We should rejoice when we suffer as we suffer in a small way but in communion with Our Lord's suffering. We should know that, while Scripture does not give all the reasons for suffering, it does give us some things to cling to.

Spoiler

Why Suffering in the World?

We believers in orthodox Christendom do not not believe that "purposeless suffering" exists. God is wholly sovereign, therefore there is nothing that happens in the universe that is not outside of his purview and control. Recall that even the devil had to get permission from God to visit suffering upon Job. This is why Luther remarked, "Satan is God's devil."

This is a deeply personal topic for me. My dear wife has suffered for many years, confined to her bed most days, unable to think clearly, often endangering herself and those around her, and in requiring my 24-hr/7-day personal care for all her needs. It is sometimes enervating for me, as it confines me to be at her bedside many hours of the day, and I do ask God "why?" often, but never with my fist extended heavenward in anger. Frustration, yes. Anger, never.

There is suffering in the world for many reasons. We cannot understand all the reasons for these things, for a transcendent (extending or lying beyond the limits of ordinary experience) God is after all, knowable only in a limited sense by our finite minds. When we see suffering and seemingly meaningless evil, it is difficult to believe that there is a purpose in it. Yet we know that God must have a morally sufficient reason for permitting evil to occur, for he is certainly able to eliminate evil in this world.

We know God is righteous, and thus we must trust that some greater good comes from God's decision to not eliminate evil. As in the case of Joseph, who suffered greatly at the hands of his brothers and others, yet explained to them, in Genesis 50:20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.

We need not look further than the Cross to see how the most evil act in human history, the crucifixion of our Lord, was purposed by God to bring about the greatest good possible—eternal life for God’s people.

So these are just two examples that teach us that God, being perfectly holy, wills righteously those things which men do wickedly. Now I am not arguing that the evil we see in this world is not really evil. There is no doubt that genuine evil is present. But there is also no doubt that evil occurs only because God actively (not passively) permits it for reasons He has not chosen to fully reveal to us. Perhaps God does not reveal the reasons because we are just incapable of understanding the reason, or for His own good and wise counsel (Duet. 29:29)

For example, think about finding an animal with its leg caught in a trap. To extricate the poor creature you will have to perhaps push the trap deeper into its leg in order to release the locking mechanism, causing great pain. To the animal, which cannot comprehend what you are doing or why you are doing it, your action appears that just more evil is being inflicted upon it. Yet, the reality is, from your vantage point as a being with much higher intelligence and state of being than the animal, that you are actually freeing the creature from its predicament, albeit with the short-term required pain that accompanies your actions.

Yet another analogy is treatment of children by doctors. Sometimes that treatment is very painful and the child cannot fully understand why he or she must suffer at the hands of a person who is supposed to be healing them, yet the treatment brings about a greater good in the child’s life.

I think if we look carefully in the Scriptures we can determine some of the reasons for suffering.

First suffering can be a test of faith such as described in
1Pe 1:7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith--more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire--may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Second, suffering can be a sanctifying experience. Joseph saw how an apparent evil towards him was meant for a greater good by God:
Gen 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

Third, suffering could be a chastisement as the result of sin in a person’s life. Chastisement does not mean complete and total rejection by God, only that our souls may be cleansed from the malady of sin. Paul spoke of this chastisement:
1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
1Co 11:30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

Yet, not all illnesses or sickness is the result of sin. Christ clearly said as much:
John 9:1 As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth.
John 9:2 And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
John 9:3 Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

We see here that Christ did not imply that the man or his parents had not sinned. He meant that the man’s blindness was not a direct result of sin in their lives. God had actively permitted (willfully ordained) this man to be born blind in order that the man might become a means of displaying the mighty works of God. Before the man was born, the Christ knew He would give sight to those blind eyes.

Fourth, suffering can sometimes be considered a means by which we display the sympathy of Christ in a practical manner, thus proving our faith through works. The Apostle Paul notes:
Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

The afflictions endured by Paul in his flesh were for the sake of Christ's body, namely, the church. The sufferings of non-believing people are, in one sense, purposeless. There is no high dignity attached to these sufferings. The sufferings of the non-believer are only a foretaste of the torment of hell to be endured forever. But the suffering of the believer is not the same. When believers suffer for Christ, Christ in a very real way suffers with them.

Fifth, suffering can be a means by which we are tempered (strengthened) for the eventualities to come. Christ, when speaking to Peter of his eventual death stated:
John 21:18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.

As in the old saying, “what doesn’t kill you, sometimes makes you stronger”, suffering can build us up so that we are better prepared for the future and its travails.

Sixth, suffering can be used as a Christian witness to others of God’s unmerited grace. All watch how we believers bear our suffering. Our attitude (spoken and unspoken) towards an illness, accident, etc. and our reception of illness, accident, etc., speak volumes when our explicit spoken testimony of faith is rejected.

Seventh, suffering is sometimes a means of weaning us from the things of this world to cause us to draw nearer to God. Suffering should be a means of educating us to the prospect of heaven. This earthly world is not the home of the believer. We are pilgrims and strangers here on this fallen mortal coil whose citizenship is in another place. Our minds should be focused on things invisible and not in the temporal things of this life.

We must remember that with the fall of mankind in Eden sin entered the world, corrupting earth and all its inhabitants. Thus we have sin directly causing suffering when sinful people commit sinful acts. We have sin causing suffering indirectly by the deteriorating earth and all its natural disasters.

Eighth, suffering is actually a means by which we can comfort others, so there is a fellowship of suffering in some cases.
2Co 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2Co 1:4 who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
2Co 1:5 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too.

Christ told us that we would suffer in this world:
John 16:33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.

But why doesn’t God just stop evil actions that cause innocent people to suffer?

Jer 12:1 Righteous are you, O LORD, when I complain to you; yet I would plead my case before you. Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all who are treacherous thrive?
Jer 12:2 You plant them, and they take root; they grow and produce fruit; you are near in their mouth and far from their heart.

So in the end, some still like to ask questions like: Why doesn’t God intervene to stop evil if He is all-loving and all-powerful? Why doesn’t He stop the drunk driver’s car that is going to crash into a bus? Why doesn’t He deflect the murderer’s bullets?

The person asking these questions doesn’t really want God to stop all their evil actions. They don’t want to be invisibly gagged every time they’re about to say something hurtful; they don’t want to stub their toe when they try to kick the dog. They just think it would be good if God stopped certain evil acts or just the evil acts of others. But that would make life impossible. There would be no freedoms, no regularity and no personal responsibility.

Having said this, we must never forget that God is not indifferent to our sufferings for we have the Helper, the Holy Spirit, to bear our travails with us. Moreover, God's grace restrains sin and sinners so that we can appreciate mercy and unmerited grace in light of sin. If God did not do so our streets would be running with the blood of and drawn by the reprobate.

See also Piper and Taylor’s, Suffering and the Sovereignty of God available for purchase here.

AMR

The truth of the matter is that the rain falls because God so ordained it to fall, all according to His good and wise purposes.

AMR

No, the rain falls because we live in a sin cursed world.