Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

[God's Truth]

I proved with scripture that not only faith alone is false, but so are madists when they preach Paul taught a different gospel.

Peter clearly speaks of repenting of sins and Jesus coming again---just as Paul does.

Same gospel, same repent of sins, and people misunderstand Paul---just like the faith alone preachers and just like the madists.

 

[God's Truth]

The only instructions that Jesus gives us to be saved is to believe on him, John 3:18.

...believe on him...believe on him is right...believe on him for what?...believe on him that you have to do what he says!

All of commandments are to show you that you don't measure up to God's standards.

WHAT?! Are you saying Jesus was being ironic? Do you think Jesus is telling us things we can't do? NO WAY was Jesus misleading us just to surprise us later with a message from Paul that says we only have to have faith!

No way did Jesus' teachings become some kind of false ironic teachings just to say later see, I told you things you couldn't do just so I can tell you later that you don't have to. That is outrageous. So the Jews were told things that they couldn't do, and when they reject him it is wrong, why?

You can't humble yourself? You can't forgive others? You can't stop stealing? You can't stop fornicating and just get married? You can't stop getting drunk? You can't stop lusting in your heart?

Jesus says his works are light, easy, and not burdensome. What you say makes his words words a ruse. You say his words are not light but impossible to do!?

 

[Robert Pate]

...believe on him...believe on him is right...believe on him for what?...believe on him that you have to do what he says!


WHAT?! Are you saying Jesus was being ironic? Do you think Jesus is telling us things we can't do? NO WAY was Jesus misleading us just to surprise us later with a message from Paul that says we only have to have faith!

No way did Jesus' teachings become some kind of false ironic teachings just to say later see, I told you things you couldn't do just so I can tell you later that you don't have to. That is outrageous. So the Jews were told things that they couldn't do, and when they reject him it is wrong, why?

You can't humble yourself? You can't forgive others? You can't stop stealing? You can't stop fornicating and just get married? You can't stop getting drunk? You can't stop lusting in your heart?

Jesus says his works are light, easy, and not burdensome. What you say makes his words words a ruse. You say his words are not light but impossible to do!?

The reason that Jesus burden is light is because he has victoriously defeated sin, death and the Devil, In our name and on our behalf. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

 

[lifeisgood]

You did more than the other faith alone preachers, at least you tried to answer the question. I was hoping though that you would not try to defer from the obvious message, but you did.

Read this scripture and tell me you don't get that the scoffers are sinning
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.

Who said that they were not sinning?

That’s why they are called scoffers/sneers because they REJECT Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary.

Now read this scripture

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

That scripture says God has not come yet because he wants everyone to come to repentance. Repentance is asking for forgiveness of those sinful things the scripture 3 says they were doing.

Who is saying otherwise?

[IRead this next scripture where Peter says to live holy lives. That is about not doing sins as always.
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives

Who is disagreeing with what Peter and Paul said?

Now read 14 and 15, Peter spoke of sinners, their not repenting of their sins, he then speaks of making sure the believers that are there are living sinless lives...Now here it comes---JUST AS Paul writes about!

So what is your problem with Peter and Paul?

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

Why you’re disagreeing with him?

This next scripture is where Peter tells the people that Paul speaks in all his letters...about what?...about OBEYING. Then he says that ignorant and unstable people distort.

16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Did you read that?...to their own destruction, their own destruction because they misunderstand Paul...misunderstand Paul about what?...misunderstand Paul about what Peter was talking about---OBEYING. They misunderstand what Paul says about obeying. THEN PETER WARNS us to what?---to OBEY!

What is your problem with obeying?
Why don’t you obey what Peter and Paul said?

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

Don't be carried away by the error of what kind of people?---LAWLESS people. What do faith alone people teach? They teach that Paul says we only have faith!

Faith ALONE FOR SALVATION.

AFTER God has made you His child (saved you), then the Holy Spirit will tell you what you are to do or not do.

It matters not how much YOU, gt, SAY that you OBEY, you have not even started to OBEY.

You continue to provide your own way to salvation, which has already been rejected.

 

[God's Truth]

The reason that Jesus burden is light is because he has victoriously defeated sin, death and the Devil, In our name and on our behalf. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

Those who obey are complete in him.

 

[God's Truth]

Who said that they were not sinning?

That’s why they are called scoffers/sneers because they REJECT Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary.



Who is saying otherwise?



Who is disagreeing with what Peter and Paul said?



So what is your problem with Peter and Paul?



Why you’re disagreeing with him?



What is your problem with obeying?
Why don’t you obey what Peter and Paul said?

You are being dishonest. Prove it that I have a problem with Paul and Peter. Prove it that I disagree with him.

Faith ALONE FOR SALVATION.

Jesus tells us who he saves, and we are told faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. See James 2:14, 17, 20. 22 and 24.

AFTER God has made you His child (saved you), then the Holy Spirit will tell you what you are to do or not do.

You don't know your sins?
The Holy Spirit is given to those who OBEY. See Acts 5:32.

It matters not how much YOU, gt, SAY that you OBEY, you have not even started to OBEY.

You are not speaking truth. You are falsely accusing.
Where do you get that from?

You continue to provide your own way to salvation, which has already been rejected.

Jesus is the Way, and you must follow his directions if you want to go to the Father.

 

[lifeisgood]

You are being dishonest. Prove it that I have a problem with Paul and Peter. Prove it that I disagree with him.

I don’t have to. You prove yourself to be a DISobedient boastful servant in the total of your responses.

Jesus tells us who he saves, and we are told faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. See James 2:14, 17, 20. 22 and 24.

You, gt, have no idea what James is talking about.

You don't know your sins?

But you BOAST that you have and on top of that you have asked forgiveness for them.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who OBEY. See Acts 5:32.

Yes, and what is THEIR OBEDIENCE? They permitted God to save them for they ACCEPTED exclusively, Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary.

You are not speaking truth. You are falsely accusing.
Where do you get that from?

In the total of your responses.

Jesus is the Way, and you must follow his directions if you want to go to the Father.

And why don’t you OBEY Him and go to the whole world and preach His gospel? Oh, yeah, I forget, you gt, even thou you BOAST of OBEYING His EVERY command He was not speaking to you.

You, DISobedient boastful servant.

Jesus is the Way,

He is THE Way, THE Truth, THE Life. Not simply the Way.

and you must follow his directions if you want to go to the Father.

Why don’t you follow his directions? Matthew 11:28-29 Maybe He wasn't speaking to you?

 

[God's Truth]

I don’t have to. You prove yourself to be a DISobedient boastful servant in the total of your responses.



You, gt, have no idea what James is talking about.



But you BOAST that you have and on top of that you have asked forgiveness for them.


Yes, and what is THEIR OBEDIENCE? They permitted God to save them for they ACCEPTED exclusively, Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary.



In the total of your responses.



And why don’t you OBEY Him and go to the whole world and preach His gospel? Oh, yeah, I forget, you gt, even thou you BOAST of OBEYING His EVERY command He was not speaking to you.

You, DISobedient boastful servant.



He is THE Way, THE Truth, THE Life. Not simply the Way.



Why don’t you follow his directions? Matthew 11:28-29 Maybe He wasn't speaking to you?

I see no reason to debate with you anymore at this time.
Glad you are feeling better.

 

[lifeisgood]

I see no reason to debate with you anymore at this time.
Glad you are feeling better.

Thank you.

 

[Robert Pate]

Lifeisgood, is right.

If you say that you obey Jesus, why is it you are not taking the Gospel to the world? You should be a missionary in Africa or somewhere. Instead you are sitting on this Forum bragging about how you keep the commandments, which you don't keep at all.

 

[intojoy]

The reason that Jesus burden is light is because he has victoriously defeated sin, death and the Devil, In our name and on our behalf. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

He didn't defeat sin in your name. He did so in His name.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[God's Truth]

Lifeisgood, is right.

If you say that you obey Jesus, why is it you are not taking the Gospel to the world? You should be a missionary in Africa or somewhere. Instead you are sitting on this Forum bragging about how you keep the commandments, which you don't keep at all.

Jesus doesn't tell everyone to do that. Jesus doesn't tell everyone to be a traveling minister. If you too obeyed Jesus you would have been given understanding.

 

[Robert Pate]

He didn't defeat sin in your name. He did so in His name.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

You apparently don't understand the Gospel.
All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for us.
Maybe you think that he was saving himself?

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus doesn't tell everyone to do that. Jesus doesn't tell everyone to be a traveling minister. If you too obeyed Jesus you would have been given understanding.

You say, but you don't do.

 

[God's Truth]

You say, but you don't do.

Jesus reveals himself to those who obey. You say you do not obey and then expect to be a teacher.

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus reveals himself to those who obey. You say you do not obey and then expect to be a teacher.

No, I just identify with Paul who said that "He was the chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

 

[God's Truth]

No, I just identify with Paul who said that "He was the chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

He didn't stay that way when he got saved!

 

[Robert Pate]

He didn't stay that way when he got saved!

So, you believe that when Paul wrote 1 Timothy 1:15 he was not saved?

 

[God's Truth]

So, you believe that when Paul wrote 1 Timothy 1:15 he was not saved?

He was thinking back to when he was not saved, to when he was a violent man trying to destroy Jesus' church.

 

[Robert Pate]

He was thinking back to when he was not saved, to when he was a violent man trying to destroy Jesus' church.

1 Timothy 1:15 is present tense. "Of whom I am chief".

If it was past tense it would have said, "Of whom I was chief".