Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

Eagles Wings

New member
Free will is not a God. It is a natural human attribute that we are all born with.
The human will is subject to the will of God, for which I am utterly grateful.

The finite will of man is not capable of regeneration.

All glory and praise to God, who through His Holy Spirit, gives the believer eyes and ears to hear His Holy Word.
 

Shasta

Well-known member
I know what the text says, it says world. However you are dishonest in giving the biblical definitions for the word kosmos as it's used in scripture.

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Dishonest? How could I be? I was just quoting A.T. Robertson who, I might add, knew NT Greek far better than John Calvin did. If you, like Nang, believe that "world" means the "world of the elect" then let us put that idea to the test.

15 Do not love the world of the elect or anything in the worldof the elect. If anyone loves the world of the elect, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world of the elect—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world of the elect…(1 John 2:15-16)

It seems from this that John had a very low opinion of God's chosen people.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
The human will is subject to the will of God, for which I am utterly grateful.

The finite will of man is not capable of regeneration.

All glory and praise to God, who through His Holy Spirit, gives the believer eyes and ears to hear His Holy Word.

If the human will is subject to the will of God, then why do we have all of this sin in the world? Are you saying that God approves of sin?

Paul said, "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Which is the Gospel, Romans 10:17.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Dishonest? How could I be? I was just quoting A.T. Robertson who, I might add, knew NT Greek far better than John Calvin did. If you, like Nang, believe that "world" means the "world of the elect" then let us put that idea to the test.

15 Do not love the world of the elect or anything in the worldof the elect. If anyone loves the world of the elect, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world of the elect—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world of the elect…(1 John 2:15-16)

It seems from this that John had a very low opinion of God's chosen people.
You didn't present all the definitions of the word world, kosmos. That's dishonest.

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Shasta

Well-known member
Again you don't believe that sinners Christ died for are saved by His Death alone, is that correct?

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Do you believe this:

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord
and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes and is justified,
and with the mouth one confesses and is saved (Romans 10:8-10)

The apostle knew how people are saved and he did not say people are saved solely because Christ died. Where did you come up with that idea?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Do you believe this:

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord
and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes and is justified,
and with the mouth one confesses and is saved (Romans 10:8-10)

The apostle knew how people are saved and he did not say people are saved solely because Christ died. Where did you come up with that idea?
Me and you don't believe the same. You don't believe that sinners Christ died for are saved by His Death alone, do you?

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Lon

Well-known member
God is sovereign only within the frame work of his holy, just, merciful, righteous nature.
Thin veneer theology. You are not God's GOD. You don't get to say where He is Sovereign else that is not sovereignty :doh: God's grace is rich and deep and can reach through ignorance. He can forgive you for even kicking against Him.

That leaves Calvinism out.
:nono: No. You leave Calvinism out. Quit imperializing yourself above God, His Scriptures, and His people. I never say "That leaves Arminianism out." Such would be lifting my Calvinism higher than God allows. I am not arrogant. It is possible my systematic theology is wrong. I don't believe it is, but I'm not allegiant to men's thoughts. I'm allegiant to God.

Calvinism is the belief that God predestinates people to hell before they are born, making God unjust.
You REALLY have never thought this through. One question (and please be a stand-up guy and actually answer): Does God know all things including the future? It is really simple if not easy: "Yes" "No" "I don't know"

If you don't see anything wrong with God predestinating people to hell before they are born it is because you are also an unjust person, that is void of the Holy Spirit.
I can turn that around for you according to your logic: If God sends ANYBODY to Hell which He has already "Pre-made" then he is unjust, according to your line of reasoning. I simply don't believe you capable of these kinds of discussions or deeper biblical contemplation, Robert. God gives grace, but it'd be nice is you didn't spout ignorance because you are an ignorant man. Your every thread is but a knee-jerk after knee-jerk.
 

Shasta

Well-known member
You didn't present all the definitions of the word world, kosmos. That's dishonest.

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Oh you want ALL the definitions? I don't know why I should provide them when I know you will not bother to read them. You rarely read my posts when you think they are too long...but, in the interest of being honest here they are

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 2889: κόσμος

κόσμος, κόσμου, ὁ;

1. in Greek writings from Homer down, an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, or der.

2. as in Greek writings from Homer down, ornament, decoration, adornment: ἐνδύσεως ἱματίων, 1 Peter 3:3 (Sir. 6:30 Sir. 21:21; 2 Macc. 2:2; the Sept. for צָבָא of the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts,' as the ornament of the heavens, Genesis 2:1; Deuteronomy 4:19; Deuteronomy 17:8; Isaiah 24:21; Isaiah 40:26; besides occasionally for עֲדִי; twice for תִּפְאֶרֶת, Proverbs 20:29; Isaiah 3:19).

3. the world, i. e. the universe (quem κόσμονGraeci nomine ornamenti appellarunt, eum nos a perfecta absolutaque elegantia mundum, Pliny, h. n. 2, 3; in which sense Pythagoras is said to have been the first to use the word, Plutarch, de plac. philos. 2, 1, 1, p. 886 c.; but according to other accounts he used it of the heavens, (Diogenes Laërtius 8, 48, of which it is used several times also by other Greek writers (see Menag. on (Diogenes Laërtius, the passage cited; Bentley, Epistles of Phalaris, vol. i., 391 (Lond. 1886); M. Anton. 4, 27 and Gataker's notes; cf. Liddell and Scott, under the word, IV.)): Acts 17:24; Romans 4:13 (where cf. Meyer, Tholuck, Philippi); 1 Corinthians 3:22; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Philippians 2:15; with a predominant notion of space, in hyperbole, John 21:25 (Wis. 7:17 Wis. 9:3; 2 Macc. 8:18; κτίζειν τόν κόσμον, Wis. 11:18; ὁ τοῦ κόσμου κτίστης, 2 Macc. 7:23; 4 Macc. 5:25 (24); — a sense in which it does not occur in the other O. T. books, although there is something akin to it in Proverbs 17:6, on which see 8 below); in the phrases πρό τοῦ τόν κόσμον εἶναι, John 17:5; ἀπό καταβολῆς κόσμου (Matthew 13:35 R G; ; Luke 11:50; Hebrews 4:3; Hebrews 9:26; Revelation 13:8; Revelation 17:8) and πρό καταβολῆς κόσμου (John 17:21; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:20) (on which see καταβολή, 2); ἀπό κτίσεως κόσμου, Romans 1:20; ἀπ' ἀρχῆς κόσμου, Matthew 24:21; (on the omission of the article, cf. Winers Grammar, p. 123 (117); Buttmann, § 124, 8 b.; (cf. Ellicott on Galatians, 6:14)).

4. the circle of the earth, the earth (very rarely so in Greek writings until after the age of the Ptolemies; so in Boeckh, Corpus inscriptions i., pp. 413 and 643, nos. 334 and 1306): Mark 16:15; (John 12:25); 1 Timothy 6:7; βασιλεία τοῦ κόσμου, Revelation 11:15; βασιλεῖαι (plural) τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 4:8 (for which Luke 4:5 τῆς οἰκουμένης); τό φῶς τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, of the sun, John 11:9; ἐν ὅλῳ τῷ κόσμῳ, properly, Matthew 26:13; hyperbolically, equivalent to far and wide, in widely separated places, Romans 1:8; (so ἐν παντί τῷ κόσμῳ, Colossians 1:6); ὁ τότε κόσμος, 2 Peter 3:6; the earth with its inhabitants: ζῆν ἐν κόσμῳ, opposed to the dead, Colossians 2:20 (λῃστής ἦν καί κλέπτης ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, i. e. among those living on earth, Ev. Nicod. 26). By a usage foreign to secular authors,

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17. used specifically of the Gentiles collectively, Romans 11:12 (where it alternates with τά ἔθνη), 15; (the two in combination: τά ἔθνη τοῦ κόσμου, Luke 12:30). hyperbolically or loosely equivalent to the majority of men in a place, the multitude or mass (as we say the public): John 7:4; John 12:19 (here Tr marginal reading adds ὅλος, in brackets); . equivalent to the entire number, ἀσεβῶν, 2 Peter 2:5.

6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5; λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου 1 Corinthians 2:12; ἡ σοφία τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, 1 Corinthians 1:20 (here G L T Tr WH omit τούτου); 1 Corinthians 3:19. (τά στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου, Galatians 4:3; Colossians 2:8, 20 (see 5 above, and στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4).)

7. "worldly affairs; the aggregate of things earthly; the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments, riches, advantages, pleasures, etc., which, although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ": Galatians 6:14; 1 John 2:16; 1 John 3:17; εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to be of earthly origin and nature, John 18:36; somewhat differently in 1 John 2:16 (on which see εἰμί, V. 3 d.); κερδαίνειν τόν κόσμον ὅλον, Matthew 16:26; Mark 8:36; Luke 9:25; οἱ χρώμενοι τῷ κόσμῳ τούτῳ (critical text τόν κόσμον; see χράομαι, 2), 1 Corinthians 7:31a; μέριμναν τά τοῦ κόσμου, 33f; φίλος and φιλία τοῦ κόσμου, James 4:4; ἀγαπᾶν τόν κόσμον, 1 John 2:15; νικαν τόν κόσμον, the incentives to sin proceeding from the world, 1 John 5:4f; the obstacles to God's cause, John 16:33; (cf. ἐλθέτω χάρις καί παρελθέτω ὁ κόσμος οὗτος, Teaching of the Twelve Apostles,

c. 10 [ET]).

8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort (cf. English a world of curses (Shakspere), etc.): ὁ κόσμος τῆς ἀδικίας, the sum of all iniquities, James 3:6; τοῦ πιστοῦ ὅλος ὁ κόσμος τῶν χρημάτων, τοῦ δέ ἀπίστου οὐδέ ὀβολός (a statement due to the Alex. translators), Proverbs 17:6. Among the N. T. writers no one uses κόσμος oftener than John; it occurs in Mark three times, in Luke's writings four times, and in the Apocalypse three tinms. Cf. Kreiss, Sur le sens du mot κόσμος dans le N. T. (Strasb. 1837); Düsterdieck on 1 John 2:15, pp. 247-259; Zezschwitz, Profangräcität u. Biblical Sprachgeist, p. 21ff; Diestel in Herzog xvii., p. 676ff; (Trench, Synonyms, § lix.); on John's use of the word cf. Reuss, Histoire de la theologie chretienne au siecle apostolique, ii., p. 463ff (i. e. livre 7 chapter viii.); cf. his Johanneische Theologie, in the Beiträge zu den theol. Wissenschaften, Fasc. i., p. 29ff; (Westcott on John 1:10, 'Additional Note').
 

Eagles Wings

New member
If the human will is subject to the will of God, then why do we have all of this sin in the world? Are you saying that God approves of sin?

Paul said, "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Which is the Gospel, Romans 10:17.
After many readings of Romans 7, I find that I still don't completely comprehend the struggle of the believer with sin. Since Paul struggled and our Holy God inspired the writing of these passages, I pay attention.

The believer constantly feels the tension of the depraved state, while also humbly reveling in God's grace, in Christ.

Then we go on to Romans 8, rejoicing that it is through the Spirit of Christ that the believer has any hope of faith, and righteousness.

So, I believe that both justification and sanctification is due to God alone and not by my will, or my "might".
 
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beloved57

Well-known member
Can a person be saved without putting their faith in Christ, without believing that God raised Him from the dead?
Yes. A person is saved by what Christ did alone. Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

A Righteous person is saved. Now, according to this scripture how shall the many be made righteous?

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beloved57

Well-known member
Oh you want ALL the definitions? I don't know why I should provide them when I know you will not bother to read them. You rarely read my posts when you think they are too long...but, in the interest of being honest here they are

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 2889: κόσμος

κόσμος, κόσμου, ὁ;

1. in Greek writings from Homer down, an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, or der.

2. as in Greek writings from Homer down, ornament, decoration, adornment: ἐνδύσεως ἱματίων, 1 Peter 3:3 (Sir. 6:30 Sir. 21:21; 2 Macc. 2:2; the Sept. for צָבָא of the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts,' as the ornament of the heavens, Genesis 2:1; Deuteronomy 4:19; Deuteronomy 17:8; Isaiah 24:21; Isaiah 40:26; besides occasionally for עֲדִי; twice for תִּפְאֶרֶת, Proverbs 20:29; Isaiah 3:19).

3. the world, i. e. the universe (quem κόσμονGraeci nomine ornamenti appellarunt, eum nos a perfecta absolutaque elegantia mundum, Pliny, h. n. 2, 3; in which sense Pythagoras is said to have been the first to use the word, Plutarch, de plac. philos. 2, 1, 1, p. 886 c.; but according to other accounts he used it of the heavens, (Diogenes Laërtius 8, 48, of which it is used several times also by other Greek writers (see Menag. on (Diogenes Laërtius, the passage cited; Bentley, Epistles of Phalaris, vol. i., 391 (Lond. 1886); M. Anton. 4, 27 and Gataker's notes; cf. Liddell and Scott, under the word, IV.)): Acts 17:24; Romans 4:13 (where cf. Meyer, Tholuck, Philippi); 1 Corinthians 3:22; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Philippians 2:15; with a predominant notion of space, in hyperbole, John 21:25 (Wis. 7:17 Wis. 9:3; 2 Macc. 8:18; κτίζειν τόν κόσμον, Wis. 11:18; ὁ τοῦ κόσμου κτίστης, 2 Macc. 7:23; 4 Macc. 5:25 (24); — a sense in which it does not occur in the other O. T. books, although there is something akin to it in Proverbs 17:6, on which see 8 below); in the phrases πρό τοῦ τόν κόσμον εἶναι, John 17:5; ἀπό καταβολῆς κόσμου (Matthew 13:35 R G; ; Luke 11:50; Hebrews 4:3; Hebrews 9:26; Revelation 13:8; Revelation 17:8) and πρό καταβολῆς κόσμου (John 17:21; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:20) (on which see καταβολή, 2); ἀπό κτίσεως κόσμου, Romans 1:20; ἀπ' ἀρχῆς κόσμου, Matthew 24:21; (on the omission of the article, cf. Winers Grammar, p. 123 (117); Buttmann, § 124, 8 b.; (cf. Ellicott on Galatians, 6:14)).

4. the circle of the earth, the earth (very rarely so in Greek writings until after the age of the Ptolemies; so in Boeckh, Corpus inscriptions i., pp. 413 and 643, nos. 334 and 1306): Mark 16:15; (John 12:25); 1 Timothy 6:7; βασιλεία τοῦ κόσμου, Revelation 11:15; βασιλεῖαι (plural) τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 4:8 (for which Luke 4:5 τῆς οἰκουμÎ*νης); Ï„ÏŒ φῶς τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, of the sun, John 11:9; ἐν ὅλῳ Ï„á¿· κόσμῳ, properly, Matthew 26:13; hyperbolically, equivalent to far and wide, in widely separated places, Romans 1:8; (so ἐν παντί Ï„á¿· κόσμῳ, Colossians 1:6); ὁ τότε κόσμος, 2 Peter 3:6; the earth with its inhabitants: ζῆν ἐν κόσμῳ, opposed to the dead, Colossians 2:20 (λῃστής ἦν καί κλÎ*πτης ἐν Ï„á¿· κόσμῳ, i. e. among those living on earth, Ev. Nicod. 26). By a usage foreign to secular authors,

5. the inhabitants of the world: θÎ*ατρον ἐγενήθημεν Ï„á¿· κόσμῳ καί ἀγγÎ*λοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γÎ*ννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισÎ*ρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξÎ*ρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστÎ*λλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν Ï„á¿· κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν Ï„á¿· κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρÎ*φεσθαι ἐν Ï„á¿· κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν Ï„á¿· κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17. used specifically of the Gentiles collectively, Romans 11:12 (where it alternates with τά ἔθνη), 15; (the two in combination: τά ἔθνη τοῦ κόσμου, Luke 12:30). hyperbolically or loosely equivalent to the majority of men in a place, the multitude or mass (as we say the public): John 7:4; John 12:19 (here Tr marginal reading adds ὅλος, in brackets); . equivalent to the entire number, ἀσεβῶν, 2 Peter 2:5.

6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5; λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου 1 Corinthians 2:12; ἡ σοφία τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, 1 Corinthians 1:20 (here G L T Tr WH omit τούτου); 1 Corinthians 3:19. (τά στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου, Galatians 4:3; Colossians 2:8, 20 (see 5 above, and στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4).)

7. "worldly affairs; the aggregate of things earthly; the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments, riches, advantages, pleasures, etc., which, although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ": Galatians 6:14; 1 John 2:16; 1 John 3:17; εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to be of earthly origin and nature, John 18:36; somewhat differently in 1 John 2:16 (on which see εἰμί, V. 3 d.); κερδαίνειν τόν κόσμον ὅλον, Matthew 16:26; Mark 8:36; Luke 9:25; οἱ χρώμενοι Ï„á¿· κόσμῳ τούτῳ (critical text τόν κόσμον; see χράομαι, 2), 1 Corinthians 7:31a; μÎ*ριμναν τά τοῦ κόσμου, 33f; φίλος and φιλία τοῦ κόσμου, James 4:4; ἀγαπᾶν τόν κόσμον, 1 John 2:15; νικαν τόν κόσμον, the incentives to sin proceeding from the world, 1 John 5:4f; the obstacles to God's cause, John 16:33; (cf. ἐλθÎ*τω χάρις καί παρελθÎ*τω ὁ κόσμος οὗτος, Teaching of the Twelve Apostles,

c. 10 [ET]).

8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort (cf. English a world of curses (Shakspere), etc.): ὁ κόσμος τῆς ἀδικίας, the sum of all iniquities, James 3:6; τοῦ πιστοῦ ὅλος ὁ κόσμος τῶν χρημάτων, τοῦ δÎ* ἀπίστου οὐδÎ* ὀβολός (a statement due to the Alex. translators), Proverbs 17:6. Among the N. T. writers no one uses κόσμος oftener than John; it occurs in Mark three times, in Luke's writings four times, and in the Apocalypse three tinms. Cf. Kreiss, Sur le sens du mot κόσμος dans le N. T. (Strasb. 1837); Düsterdieck on 1 John 2:15, pp. 247-259; Zezschwitz, Profangräcität u. Biblical Sprachgeist, p. 21ff; Diestel in Herzog xvii., p. 676ff; (Trench, Synonyms, § lix.); on John's use of the word cf. Reuss, Histoire de la theologie chretienne au siecle apostolique, ii., p. 463ff (i. e. livre 7 chapter viii.); cf. his Johanneische Theologie, in the Beiträge zu den theol. Wissenschaften, Fasc. i., p. 29ff; (Westcott on John 1:10, 'Additional Note').
Okay, you see definition# 8? That speaks of a particular group or collection of individuals as being a World.

So that applies to the Sheep Christ loves and layed down His life for, all the collection and gathering of Christ Sheep from among the jews and the gentiles is the world God so loved and Christ died for Jn 10:15-16 !

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Epoisses

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Okay, you see definition# 8? That speaks of a particular group or collection of individuals as being a World.

So that applies to the Sheep Christ loves and layed down His life for, all the collection and gathering of Christ Sheep from among the jews and the gentiles is the world God so loved and Christ died for Jn 10:15-16 !

Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app

Jesus died for the whole world with everyone in it. He then chooses an elect body (Jews and Gentiles) to believe in and receive it. The atonement is universal in scope while an election based on grace is a subset of the world.
 
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