The one with whom we have to do is Jesus Christ. All judgment has been given unto him.
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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The one with whom we have to do is Jesus Christ. All judgment has been given unto him.
Please admit that God can see everything, which you earlier denied, yet have been faced with scripture on it. Will you be honest about it?
Nope, no one is in heaven or hell yet. They are all awaiting the judgment.
You think Jesus was telling a lie?
Nanja
Well-known member
Remember that when you will hear Christ say to the world of the goats:
Mat. 25:41
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
Do you really want God to see you in your sinful flesh? If he did you would disappear in a puff of smoke.
Except it's not- it just sounds stupid to, well, people who hold to stupid doctrine :chuckle:
Examine:
=You believe that God can only do what is just; He cannot do evil of any kind, or go back on His promises.
-You believe that, by man's free will, he chooses God
The outcome of this belief is that God is an automation, and you ultimately dictate His will by your own. That means that for the sake of your free will, you have taken away God's, and made yourself a freer agent then the Creator who made you.
Yes, i want truth, not lies, God saw me in my sinful flesh and died for me and washed me clean.
No, im still here watching you ignore scripture that is clear that says He sees all.
PS now leaving the conversation, since you arent even concerned with scripture actually states and you wont be honest when shown your error.
If you don't come to Christ as a repentant sinner and receive his great free gift of salvation, you will be one of the goats.
Nope, he only sees Jesus Christ.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Robert Pate's psychopannychia, annihilationism, and second chance at salvation
Robert Pate's psychopannychia, annihilationism, and second chance at salvation
This psychopannychia, annihilationism, and second chance at salvation is part and parcel the root of your confusion on the whole matter before us at present, Robert. You are trying to force Scripture to support your odd presuppositons, hence you have made God being less than all-knowing and even absent from His creation.
This discussion is an object lesson in what can result when a person rejects corporate assembly wherein he may be properly instructed on matters of the faith. Being a Lone Ranger quite often leads to manifest error and even heresy.
It is actually sad to see this state of your belief system exposed to the light of day, Robert.
AMR
Robert Pate's psychopannychia, annihilationism, and second chance at salvation
Robert Pate said:
This psychopannychia, annihilationism, and second chance at salvation is part and parcel the root of your confusion on the whole matter before us at present, Robert. You are trying to force Scripture to support your odd presuppositons, hence you have made God being less than all-knowing and even absent from His creation.
This discussion is an object lesson in what can result when a person rejects corporate assembly wherein he may be properly instructed on matters of the faith. Being a Lone Ranger quite often leads to manifest error and even heresy.
It is actually sad to see this state of your belief system exposed to the light of day, Robert.
AMR
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If God is not just, He is not God!!! Man does choose God;
John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Romans 10:9-13 New International Version (NIV)
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Nanja
Well-known member
God gives repentance to all His Chosen Ones in Christ Eph. 1:4-7; Acts 5:31; John 3:27.
flintstoned
New member
Everyone is predestined for hell because we all sin. That is the just punishment for sin. It is only due to God's grace that He, out of his own good pleasure, decided to spare a people for himself.
beloved57
Well-known member
No, I'd say that you do. Do you believe that men who confess Jesus as Lord are save?
Nanja
Well-known member
The death of Christ was exclusively for God's Elect, His Sheep John 10:11, 15; His Church Eph. 5:25; His People Mat. 1:21.
They shall believe on Christ because they were chosen to belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13.
Belief / Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.
John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
No other way!
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The Justice of God
The Justice of God
Justice is that rectitude of character which leads to the treatment of others in strict accordance with their deserts.
God's justice does not differ in any respect of this attribute of God as is seen among His rational creatures. The exception is that God's justice is perfect while that of His creatures is imperfect. God's justice is impartial, the justice of His creatures is partial.
However, these differences exist in the exercise of justice, and not in justice qua justice. These differences arise from the limited knowledge, reason, and perception of right and wrong among His creatures, and from the extent to which they naturally yield to their prejudices and passions. Yet in the all-perfect being of God justice has none of these deficiencies, and must be exercised according to its strictest nature, and in every conceivable form of perfection. To all, therefore, God must deal out the most absolute justice, whatever they deserve, only what they deserve, and the full measure of their deserts.
To claim that fallen man chooses God is to claim for man a moral ability Scripture teaches us that he does not possess—Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14. If man did possess such moral ability on his own accord, there would be no need for Scripture to remind us that it is God who enables this moral ability formerly lost in the fall of Adam (e.g., Eze. 36:26; Daniel 4:34-35; John 1:13; John 15:16; Romans 9:16).
If one believes that God is dependent on human beings in any sense (either their willing or running), they are not merely Christians of a different color; they are following an essentially non-Christian and non-theistic interpretation of God's nature. Contemporary evangelical scholars such as open theists Clark Pinnock and Richard Rice realized this and called for a rejection of classical theism for just that very reason.
One of the surest ways to be confident that you are not a member of the Kingdom is to pursue a righteousness that you have created by your willpower and effort. Rather, you are to be comforted by the fact that if you are seeking God it is because God Himself has first loved and drawn you to Himself.
AMR
The Justice of God
Justice is that rectitude of character which leads to the treatment of others in strict accordance with their deserts.
God's justice does not differ in any respect of this attribute of God as is seen among His rational creatures. The exception is that God's justice is perfect while that of His creatures is imperfect. God's justice is impartial, the justice of His creatures is partial.
However, these differences exist in the exercise of justice, and not in justice qua justice. These differences arise from the limited knowledge, reason, and perception of right and wrong among His creatures, and from the extent to which they naturally yield to their prejudices and passions. Yet in the all-perfect being of God justice has none of these deficiencies, and must be exercised according to its strictest nature, and in every conceivable form of perfection. To all, therefore, God must deal out the most absolute justice, whatever they deserve, only what they deserve, and the full measure of their deserts.
To claim that fallen man chooses God is to claim for man a moral ability Scripture teaches us that he does not possess—Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14. If man did possess such moral ability on his own accord, there would be no need for Scripture to remind us that it is God who enables this moral ability formerly lost in the fall of Adam (e.g., Eze. 36:26; Daniel 4:34-35; John 1:13; John 15:16; Romans 9:16).
If one believes that God is dependent on human beings in any sense (either their willing or running), they are not merely Christians of a different color; they are following an essentially non-Christian and non-theistic interpretation of God's nature. Contemporary evangelical scholars such as open theists Clark Pinnock and Richard Rice realized this and called for a rejection of classical theism for just that very reason.
One of the surest ways to be confident that you are not a member of the Kingdom is to pursue a righteousness that you have created by your willpower and effort. Rather, you are to be comforted by the fact that if you are seeking God it is because God Himself has first loved and drawn you to Himself.
AMR
ttruscott
Well-known member
Yes, I agree with this myself but there is something missing - the reason WHY GOD hates the non-elect! To say HE created them hateful and hated them for what HE created them to be is a blasphemy against HIS loving righteousness.
is only a problem if birth is their creation but IF they were created pre-earth and chose by their free will to sin so that they were born sinful when the Son of Man sowed them into the world, then where is the problem?
Watch for my new article, "Why God Sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ" If I can I will put it on today, if not it will be tomorrow. I will back everything with scripture.